Subject: LL16 Split references

From: Stuart Cheshire <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:22:54 -0800

Keith Moore wrote (with respect to the hot-swappable modules in Apple's 
Xserve RAID that communicate internally using IPv4LL):

>these devices don't have to claim conformance to an IETF standard.
>neither should IETF be expected to endorse Apple's products.

>this is out of scope for IETF, and out of scope for this working group.

Keith, we may disagree frequently, but I know you are smart, so here's a 
genuine question for you:

Suppose Apple were to allow and encourage third-parties to develop 
hot-swappable modules that are compatible with Xserve RAID? Suppose 
further that this family of hot-swappable modules becomes very popular, 
and other RAID vendors want to build RAID chassis that accept said 
modules. To properly serve the industry doing this, there needs to be a 
standard (just like PCI is a standard).

Who is responsible for defining this inter-company standard for 
communication using IP over Ethernet inside a computer chassis, if not 
the IETF? Should the IEEE take on defining the standard for IP over 
Ethernet inside a computer chassis? Would you support an IEEE standard 
defining this use of IP over Ethernet and all its application 
implications, or would you say that the IEEE would be stepping on the 
toes of the IETF if it started defining such standards?

I will defer further comment until LL27 is officially open for discussion.

Regarding "LL16 Split references", think we all agree that splitting the 
references is right, but we can't agree which references are normative, 
so I propose we will have to make LL16 the *last* issue, and defer its 
discussion until after every other issue has been resolved. I hope that 
by then LL16 will be easy to agree on.

Stuart Cheshire <[email-masked]>
 * Wizard Without Portfolio, Apple Computer, Inc.
 * www.stuartcheshire.org

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From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:52:11 -0500

> the IETF?

I don't know if there is one.  

Just because a technology might be useful if standardized doesn't mean that
there's an organization already in place that is well-suited to standardize
it.  It certainly doesn't make much sense for IETF to standardize behavior
that encourages balkanazation of the Internet.