Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:31:58 -0500
List-Id: Tools Development list server <tools-development.ietf.org>

I do not know when this change was made, but I really do not like 
it.  The URL in the agenda used to point to the Internet-Draft, which 
included the revision number.  It has been changed to point to the 
tools site, so the URL no longer includes the revision number.  When 
I look at Gen-ART, SccDir, and other reviews, it is important to know 
if the review is against the same revision.  Now, I need to click the 
URL to find out.  Yuck!

Please put it back.

Russ

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:16:09 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: Pasi Eronen <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

Hi Russ,

On 2009-02-11 20:31 Russ Housley said the following:
> I do not know when this change was made, but I really do not like 
> it.  The URL in the agenda used to point to the Internet-Draft, which 
> included the revision number.  It has been changed to point to the 
> tools site, so the URL no longer includes the revision number.  When 
> I look at Gen-ART, SccDir, and other reviews, it is important to know 
> if the review is against the same revision.  Now, I need to click the 
> URL to find out.  Yuck!

This is one (unintended) detail in a move from perl-based to Django-
based implementation.  In Pasi's test deployment the revision numbers
still showed up, but an interaction with another change which was made
for the id-tracker resulted in the revision numbers not being visible
any more.

I believe we can deploy a rev which fixes this within ~24 hours or so.

Best,

	Henrik

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:27:07 -0500
To: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

>>I do not know when this change was made, but I really do not like 
>>it. The URL in the agenda used to point to the Internet-Draft, 
>>which included the revision number. It has been changed to point to 
>>the tools site, so the URL no longer includes the revision number. 
>>When I look at Gen-ART, SccDir, and other reviews, it is important 
>>to know if the review is against the same revision. Now, I need to 
>>click the URL to find out. Yuck!
>>
>>Please put it back.
>
>Hmm. Under the previous system, I had to copy & paste the draft name 
>to another window, add tools.ietf.org/html to the front, and only 
>then I was able to view the document. The tools htmlization is at 
>least for me crucial to look at the documents, for navigation, nits, 
>references, etc. So the old system wasn't exactly the best one 
>either, at least not for some of us.
>
>However, I'll point out that in the agenda HTML, you could have <a 
>href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foo">draft-foo-07</a>. Would 
>that help you Russ?

The old web agenda displayed draft-foo-07.txt and when clicked, it 
went to http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-foo-07.txt  I liked 
this, as it allowed me to fetch the .txt file for reading 
offline.  So, I now realize that there were two things that the 
change took away:

1) display of the revision number (which your proposal would resolve)

2) ability to fetch a plain text file (which your proposal does not 
quite resolve)

However, I's be even happier with a button that fetched all of the 
I-Ds that are on the whole agenda.

Russ

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:13:58 +0200
From: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

Russ Housley wrote:
> I do not know when this change was made, but I really do not like it. 
> The URL in the agenda used to point to the Internet-Draft, which 
> included the revision number. It has been changed to point to the 
> tools site, so the URL no longer includes the revision number. When I 
> look at Gen-ART, SccDir, and other reviews, it is important to know if 
> the review is against the same revision. Now, I need to click the URL 
> to find out. Yuck!
>
> Please put it back.

Hmm. Under the previous system, I had to copy & paste the draft name to 
another window, add tools.ietf.org/html to the front, and only then I 
was able to view the document. The tools htmlization is at least for me 
crucial to look at the documents, for navigation, nits, references, etc. 
So the old system wasn't exactly the best one either, at least not for 
some of us.

However, I'll point out that in the agenda HTML, you could have <a 
href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foo">draft-foo-07</a>. Would that 
help you Russ?

Jari

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:17:13 +0200
From: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

Russ,

> 1) display of the revision number (which your proposal would resolve)

Yep.

> 2) ability to fetch a plain text file (which your proposal does not 
> quite resolve)

Well, its one further click away; you get to the right version by 
clicking, but you'd have to click again to get the text version.

But I now realize that other people want to look at drafts in a 
different way than I do. It could be that I'm in a minority. I don't 
mind keeping the agenda the way it was.

> However, I's be even happier with a button that fetched all of the 
> I-Ds that are on the whole agenda.

rsync -avz --delete www1.ietf.org::internet-drafts i-d

Jari

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:31:00 -0800
From: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

--000e0cd29a528bd48c0462ac28f9
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I like using the tools.ietf.org versions because they actually do a better
job of printing for me (straight from Firefox, 2-up or 2-up-2-sided) so I
like links straight to tools.  I don't print every document.   Just another
use case,

Lisa

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Russ Housley <[email-masked]> wrote:

>
>  I do not know when this change was made, but I really do not like it. The
>>> URL in the agenda used to point to the Internet-Draft, which included the
>>> revision number. It has been changed to point to the tools site, so the URL
>>> no longer includes the revision number. When I look at Gen-ART, SccDir, and
>>> other reviews, it is important to know if the review is against the same
>>> revision. Now, I need to click the URL to find out. Yuck!
>>>
>>> Please put it back.
>>>
>>
>> Hmm. Under the previous system, I had to copy & paste the draft name to
>> another window, add tools.ietf.org/html to the front, and only then I was
>> able to view the document. The tools htmlization is at least for me crucial
>> to look at the documents, for navigation, nits, references, etc. So the old
>> system wasn't exactly the best one either, at least not for some of us.
>>
>> However, I'll point out that in the agenda HTML, you could have <a href="
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foo">draft-foo-07</a>. Would that help
>> you Russ?
>>
>
> The old web agenda displayed draft-foo-07.txt and when clicked, it went to
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-foo-07.txt  I liked this, as it
> allowed me to fetch the .txt file for reading offline.  So, I now realize
> that there were two things that the change took away:
>
> 1) display of the revision number (which your proposal would resolve)
>
> 2) ability to fetch a plain text file (which your proposal does not quite
> resolve)
>
> However, I's be even happier with a button that fetched all of the I-Ds
> that are on the whole agenda.
>
> Russ
>
>

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I like using the <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org">tools.ietf.org</a> versi=
ons because they actually do a better job of printing for me (straight from=
 Firefox, 2-up or 2-up-2-sided) so I like links straight to tools.&nbsp; I =
don&#39;t print every document.&nbsp;&nbsp; Just another use case,<br>
<br>Lisa<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:27 PM,=
 Russ Housley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0=
pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin=
: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

I do not know when this change was made, but I really do not like it. The U=
RL in the agenda used to point to the Internet-Draft, which included the re=
vision number. It has been changed to point to the tools site, so the URL n=
o longer includes the revision number. When I look at Gen-ART, SccDir, and =
other reviews, it is important to know if the review is against the same re=
vision. Now, I need to click the URL to find out. Yuck!<br>

<br>
Please put it back.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hmm. Under the previous system, I had to copy &amp; paste the draft name to=
 another window, add <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html" target=3D"_blan=
k">tools.ietf.org/html</a> to the front, and only then I was able to view t=
he document. The tools htmlization is at least for me crucial to look at th=
e documents, for navigation, nits, references, etc. So the old system wasn&=
#39;t exactly the best one either, at least not for some of us.<br>

<br>
However, I&#39;ll point out that in the agenda HTML, you could have &lt;a h=
ref=3D&quot;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foo" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foo</a>&quot;&gt;draft-foo-07&lt;/a&gt=
;. Would that help you Russ?<br>

</blockquote>
<br></div></div>
The old web agenda displayed draft-foo-07.txt and when clicked, it went to =
<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-foo-07.txt" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-foo-07.txt</a> &nbsp;I li=
ked this, as it allowed me to fetch the .txt file for reading offline. &nbs=
p;So, I now realize that there were two things that the change took away:<b=
r>

<br>
1) display of the revision number (which your proposal would resolve)<br>
<br>
2) ability to fetch a plain text file (which your proposal does not quite r=
esolve)<br>
<br>
However, I&#39;s be even happier with a button that fetched all of the I-Ds=
 that are on the whole agenda.<br><font color=3D"#888888">
<br>
Russ<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

--000e0cd29a528bd48c0462ac28f9--

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
To: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
Impp: xmpp:[email-masked]
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:18:10 -0700
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

So this broke my screen scraping tools - I have not really looked at  
why.

Part of it is that the url

http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/?public

redirects you to the https URL and for some reason

wget "http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/?public"

won't work because it thinks it is a self signed cert on my mac. No  
idea why - it looks like a good cert to me.

Can we not require https to view the public agenda?

The links in the agenda point at things like
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec

which instantly redirects to something like
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-05

Could we make the links in the agenda point to
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-05

That way everyone existing screen scrapping tools would work.  The  
screen scraping tool I am using is a hack of EKR tool that downloads  
any new drafts that have added to the agenda and prints them.

Alternatively, could we have some new URL like

http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/package

That you could do a wget on and it returned a tar ball of all the  
drafts on this weeks agenda?

On Feb 11, 2009, at 3:17 PM, Jari Arkko wrote:

> Russ,
>
>> 1) display of the revision number (which your proposal would resolve)
>
> Yep.
>
>> 2) ability to fetch a plain text file (which your proposal does not  
>> quite resolve)
>
> Well, its one further click away; you get to the right version by  
> clicking, but you'd have to click again to get the text version.
>
> But I now realize that other people want to look at drafts in a  
> different way than I do. It could be that I'm in a minority. I don't  
> mind keeping the agenda the way it was.
>
>> However, I's be even happier with a button that fetched all of the  
>> I-Ds that are on the whole agenda.
>
> rsync -avz --delete www1.ietf.org::internet-drafts i-d
>
> Jari
>

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
To: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
Impp: xmpp:[email-masked]
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:06:29 -0700
Cc: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

On Feb 11, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Lisa Dusseault wrote:

> I like using the tools.ietf.org versions because they actually do a  
> better job of printing for me (straight from Firefox, 2-up or 2-up-2- 
> sided) so I like links straight to tools.  I don't print every  
> document.   Just another use case,

Interesting - one of the primary reasons I screen scrape was so I  
could print them with this huge enscript command line that gets them  
just how I like them. I'll have to try doing it your way.

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:47:52 +0200
From: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
To: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

>
> Interesting - one of the primary reasons I screen scrape was so I 
> could print them with this huge enscript command line that gets them 
> just how I like them. I'll have to try doing it your way.

Printing via the PDF versions available at the tools site is also pretty 
good, I've found. But I never print, unless I'm entering a flight longer 
than my batteries.

Jari

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:12:11 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

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Hi Russ, all;

On 2009-02-11 22:27 Russ Housley said the following:

> The old web agenda displayed draft-foo-07.txt and when clicked, it=20
> went to http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-foo-07.txt  I liked=20
> this, as it allowed me to fetch the .txt file for reading=20
> offline.  So, I now realize that there were two things that the=20
> change took away:
>=20
> 1) display of the revision number (which your proposal would resolve)
>=20
> 2) ability to fetch a plain text file (which your proposal does not=20
> quite resolve)

Have a look at this development version and see if it addresses your
concerns:

  http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/iesg/agenda/

> However, I's be even happier with a button that fetched all of the=20
> I-Ds that are on the whole agenda.

Can be done, but possibly requires some behind-the-scenes cronjob or
other way to build a zipfile or tarball.  Not quite a quick fix.

Regards,

	Henrik

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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:15:04 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
To: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
Cc: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

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Hi Cullen,

On 2009-02-12 00:18 Cullen Jennings said the following:
> So this broke my screen scraping tools - I have not really looked at =20
> why.
>=20
> Part of it is that the url
>=20
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/?public
>=20
> redirects you to the https URL and for some reason
>=20
> wget "http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/?public"
>=20
> won't work because it thinks it is a self signed cert on my mac. No =20
> idea why - it looks like a good cert to me.
>=20
> Can we not require https to view the public agenda?

This may be a policy decision.  I don't the background to why the
datatracker is available only over https, but it may be that it takes
an IESG decision to make it available also over http.

> The links in the agenda point at things like
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec
>=20
> which instantly redirects to something like
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-05
>=20
> Could we make the links in the agenda point to
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-05

Done in the development version at
  http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/iesg/agenda/

-- see if that works better for you.

> That way everyone existing screen scrapping tools would work.  The =20
> screen scraping tool I am using is a hack of EKR tool that downloads =20
> any new drafts that have added to the agenda and prints them.
>=20
>=20
> Alternatively, could we have some new URL like
>=20
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/package
>=20
> That you could do a wget on and it returned a tar ball of all the =20
> drafts on this weeks agenda?

As mentioned in an earlier mail, quite possible, but more work than
fixing the page template to fix the immediate problem.

Regards,

	Henrik

>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Feb 11, 2009, at 3:17 PM, Jari Arkko wrote:
>=20
>> Russ,
>>
>>> 1) display of the revision number (which your proposal would resolve)=

>> Yep.
>>
>>> 2) ability to fetch a plain text file (which your proposal does not  =

>>> quite resolve)
>> Well, its one further click away; you get to the right version by =20
>> clicking, but you'd have to click again to get the text version.
>>
>> But I now realize that other people want to look at drafts in a =20
>> different way than I do. It could be that I'm in a minority. I don't  =

>> mind keeping the agenda the way it was.
>>
>>> However, I's be even happier with a button that fetched all of the =20
>>> I-Ds that are on the whole agenda.
>> rsync -avz --delete www1.ietf.org::internet-drafts i-d
>>
>> Jari
>>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>=20

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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:27:15 +0200
From: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
To: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

I'm happy with the development version.

Jari

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:49:09 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
To: Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
Cc: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

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Ok.  I'm ready to cut a release, but Glen probably won't be able
to deploy till he's up and about; I'd guess at around 8am PST,
which would mean around 17 CET.

I'll wait till around 15:30 CET for others to comment before I
make the release.

	Henrik

On 2009-02-12 11:35 Lars Eggert said the following:
> +1
>=20
> On 2009-2-12, at 12:27, Jari Arkko wrote:
>=20
>> I'm happy with the development version.
>>
>> Jari
>>
>=20

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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:49:56 +0200
From: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

> http://db.tools.ietf.org/docs/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec/
>
> [Comments about that page are welcome -- it's currently
> very much work in progress]
>   

Looks in theory pretty good, but I would think more about the 
integration to tools.ietf.org draft pages. "Old versions" tab for 
instance is IMHO a poor version of what the official tools page has.

Edit state: I'd prefer to see at least some of the common actions here 
directly, so that I wouldn't have to see the old user interface any more 
:-) For instance, a button for state change, comment, last call, writeup 
edit, and placing on the agenda would probably do it.

Jari

From: Ray Pelletier <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:21:31 -0500
Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Friday Call 13 Feb

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All;

A reminder of Friday's call at 10:00 AM EST for 60 minutes.  Bridge  
info below.

Draft Agenda:

1.  SF Code Sprint -

2.  tools.ietf.org - Backups and Failovers - Henrik

3.  Database Redesign Update

4.  Other

Ray

Access Code: 3269881

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INDONESIA (IDN)	0018030152030072		
IRELAND (IRL)	1800719953	16530905	
ISRAEL (ISR)	1809458715		
ITALY (ITA)	800182599	200617507	
JAPAN (JPN)	00531001557		
KAZAKHSTAN (KAZ)	88003337317		
KOREA, REPUBLIC OF (KOR)	00308140437		
KYRGYZSTAN (KGZ)	0080070077706		
LATVIA (LVA)	80000742		
LUXEMBOURG (LUX)	80023947		
MALAYSIA (MYS)	1800807136		
MEXICO (MEX)	0018005148260		
MOLDOVA, REPUBLIC OF (MDA)	080069001		
MONACO (MCO)	80093340		
NETHERLANDS (NLD)	08002658226	0207084835	
NEW ZEALAND (NZL)	0800440066		
NORWAY (NOR)	80056403	21033159	
PANAMA (PAN)	008002269745		
PERU (PER)	080070373	017057323	
PHILIPPINES (PHL)	180011100764		
POLAND (POL)	008001114567		
PORTUGAL (PRT)	800780606		
ROMANIA (ROM)	0800895088		
RUSSIAN FEDERATION (RUS)	81080022641012		
SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS (KNA)	18007449281		
SINGAPORE (SGP)	8001011437	64944158	
SLOVAKIA (SVK)	0800004237		
SOUTH AFRICA (ZAF)	0800990941		
SPAIN (ESP)	900800373	917911825	
SWEDEN (SWE)	0201400591	0114966102	
SWITZERLAND (CHE)	0800700285	0434569406	
TAIWAN (TWN)	0809092289		
TAJIKISTAN (TJK)	8108003337317		
THAILAND (THA)	001800656917		
UKRAINE (UKR)	88005042610		
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES (ARE)	8000170894		
UNITED KINGDOM (GBR)	08004960579	02079040084	
UNITED STATES (USA)	8005048071	3032480281	
URUGUAY (URY)	00040190114		
UZBEKISTAN (UZB)	810800121006		
VENEZUELA (VEN)	08001004179		

*On-net numbers may not be available in all areas of the countries  
indicated.
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">All;<br><br>A reminder of =
Friday's call at 10:00 AM EST for 60 minutes. &nbsp;Bridge info =
below.<br><br>Draft Agenda:<br><br>1. &nbsp;SF Code Sprint =
-&nbsp;<br><br>2. &nbsp;tools.ietf.org - Backups and Failovers - =
Henrik<br><br>3. &nbsp;Database Redesign Update<div><br></div><div>4. =
&nbsp;Other</div><div><br>Ray<br><br>Access Code: =
3269881<br><br>Country<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:=
 pre; ">	</span>Toll free number<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>Toll number<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>On-net*<br>ARGENTINA (ARG)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08008007323<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>01151717323<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>AUSTRALIA (AUS)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>1800359924<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>AUSTRIA (AUT)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800291800<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>BAHAMAS (BHS)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>18003890349<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>BELARUS (BLR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>882000110035<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>BELGIUM (BEL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>080039119<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>027924505<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>BOTSWANA (BWA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>002698003000557<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>BRAZIL (BRA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08008873239<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>01149497323<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>BULGARIA (BGR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>008001151067<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>CANADA (CAN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8005048071<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>6477233983<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>CHILE (CHL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>800532833<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>CHINA =
UNIFIED (CHINA TELECOM)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8008190328<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>4006208035<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>COLOMBIA (COL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>018009198715<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>COSTA =
RICA (CRI)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>08000150522<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>CROATIA (HRV)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800222927<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>CYPRUS (CYP)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>80096147<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>CZECH =
REPUBLIC (CZE)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span>800142548<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>DENMARK (DNK)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>80703116<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span>36927814<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>DOMINICAN REPUBLIC (DOM)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>18887514523<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>ECUADOR (ECU)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>1800010184<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>ESTONIA (EST)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8000100225<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>FINLAND (FIN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800772087<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0923193947<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>FRANCE (FRA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800941634<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0174180779<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>GERMANY (DEU)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08001014529<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>089710404600<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>GREECE (GRC)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0080016122038715<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>HONG =
KONG (HKG)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>30508639<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>HUNGARY (HUN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0680015305<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>ICELAND (ISL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8008086<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>INDIA =
(IND)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0008001006005<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>0008001005002<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>0008000012011<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>000182<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>INDONESIA (IDN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0018030152030072<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>IRELAND (IRL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>1800719953<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>16530905<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>ISRAEL (ISR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>1809458715<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>ITALY =
(ITA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>800182599<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span>200617507<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>JAPAN (JPN)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>00531001557<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>KAZAKHSTAN (KAZ)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>88003337317<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>KOREA, REPUBLIC OF (KOR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>00308140437<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>KYRGYZSTAN (KGZ)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0080070077706<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>LATVIA (LVA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>80000742<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>LUXEMBOURG (LUX)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>80023947<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>MALAYSIA (MYS)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>1800807136<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>MEXICO (MEX)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0018005148260<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>MOLDOVA, REPUBLIC OF (MDA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>080069001<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>MONACO (MCO)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>80093340<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>NETHERLANDS (NLD)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08002658226<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0207084835<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>NEW ZEALAND (NZL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800440066<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>NORWAY (NOR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>80056403<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>21033159<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>PANAMA (PAN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>008002269745<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>PERU =
(PER)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>080070373<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span>017057323<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>PHILIPPINES (PHL)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>180011100764<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>POLAND (POL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>008001114567<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>PORTUGAL (PRT)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>800780606<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>ROMANIA (ROM)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800895088<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>RUSSIAN FEDERATION (RUS)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>81080022641012<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>SAINT =
KITTS AND NEVIS (KNA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span>18007449281<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>SINGAPORE (SGP)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>8001011437<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span>64944158<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>SLOVAKIA (SVK)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0800004237<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>SOUTH AFRICA (ZAF)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800990941<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>SPAIN =
(ESP)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>900800373<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span>917911825<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>SWEDEN (SWE)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0201400591<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span>0114966102<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>SWITZERLAND (CHE)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0800700285<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span>0434569406<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>TAIWAN (TWN)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0809092289<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>TAJIKISTAN (TJK)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8108003337317<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>THAILAND (THA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>001800656917<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>UKRAINE (UKR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>88005042610<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>UNITED ARAB EMIRATES (ARE)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8000170894<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>UNITED KINGDOM (GBR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08004960579<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>02079040084<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>UNITED STATES (USA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8005048071<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>3032480281<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>URUGUAY (URY)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>00040190114<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>UZBEKISTAN (UZB)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>810800121006<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>VENEZUELA (VEN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08001004179<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br><br>*On-net numbers may not be available in all areas of the =
countries =
indicated.<br>_______________________________________________<br>TOOLS-DEV=
ELOPMENT mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><=
br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development">https://w=
ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development</a></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-41-608737048--

From: Ray Pelletier <[email-masked]>
To: Ray Pelletier <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:47:18 -0500
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] NOTES 13 Feb was Re:  Friday Call 13 Feb

--Apple-Mail-2-682284448
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	charset=US-ASCII;
	format=flowed;
	delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tools Dev Call 2-13-09

Attendees
Henrik
Lucy
Bob
Ray

Draft Agenda:

1.  SF Code Sprint -

Henrik -
   Robert running it; no details
   H - will set up repository to assist
   Work? - Probably eliminate old Perl scripts
   Pasi IESG Agenda work will eliminate another old Perl scripts
   Moving to Django 1.0 at some point
   Sprint Pages contains listing of work; not completed work list

Lucy - is the Virtual Machine up between Sprints?  (Development Machine)

Henrik - a repository of work online; can work with copy of the  
database and run to it; only up if I leave a Development Machine running

Program - everyone commits to their own branch, which shows what's done

Revision Log - http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/log/sprint/73
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/log/branch/sprint-2007- 
vancouver - Vancouver & Philly

2.  tools.ietf.org - Backups and Failovers - Henrik
Backups - to other 4 servers every hour

Except for wiki server, if any other go down have to change one entry  
out of config file to switchover
Switchover manually takes 5 minutes, or couple hours

To do auto failover, maybe a week of work for me; maybe a month for  
someone else
a lot of details you need to know.

Have a 2 weeks vacation in June and want to do before then.

Want to have Pasi and Bill trained up to back me up.  Need to check  
with them.

AMS as First Responder?
   Harder to take someone w/o IETF insider knowledge - time to explain  
increases dramatically
   No system documentation

Lucy - need to keep a bright line between tools and AMS; possibly Joel  
as a first responder?

3.  Database Redesign Update
  a. Data conversion

Henrik - hoping for reviews from some people on design docs
next step is the conversion
Plan to ship what I have Mon or Tuesday for Netnode conversion, then  
work on Tracker conversion

4.  Other

5378
  Henrik - a twist sent to Ed; boilerplate from 6b is different;  
permit both during transition

  Lucy - what's the status of side by side comparison between IETF and  
AMS ARO?
Ray - derailed

Lucy - IETF work is progressing and work seems to be getting out of  
balance
Not a good sense of where work is

Ray - deserves a special call.

Next call: 13 March

On Feb 12, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Ray Pelletier wrote:

> All;
>
> A reminder of Friday's call at 10:00 AM EST for 60 minutes.  Bridge  
> info below.
>
> Draft Agenda:
>
> 1.  SF Code Sprint -
>
> 2.  tools.ietf.org - Backups and Failovers - Henrik
>
> 3.  Database Redesign Update
>
> 4.  Other
>
> Ray
>
> Access Code: 3269881
>
> Country	Toll free number	Toll number	On-net*
> ARGENTINA (ARG)	08008007323	01151717323	
> AUSTRALIA (AUS)	1800359924		
> AUSTRIA (AUT)	0800291800		
> BAHAMAS (BHS)	18003890349		
> BELARUS (BLR)	882000110035		
> BELGIUM (BEL)	080039119	027924505	
> BOTSWANA (BWA)	002698003000557		
> BRAZIL (BRA)	08008873239	01149497323	
> BULGARIA (BGR)	008001151067		
> CANADA (CAN)	8005048071	6477233983	
> CHILE (CHL)	800532833		
> CHINA UNIFIED (CHINA TELECOM)	8008190328		
> 4006208035		
> COLOMBIA (COL)	018009198715		
> COSTA RICA (CRI)	08000150522		
> CROATIA (HRV)	0800222927		
> CYPRUS (CYP)	80096147		
> CZECH REPUBLIC (CZE)	800142548		
> DENMARK (DNK)	80703116	36927814	
> DOMINICAN REPUBLIC (DOM)	18887514523		
> ECUADOR (ECU)	1800010184		
> ESTONIA (EST)	8000100225		
> FINLAND (FIN)	0800772087	0923193947	
> FRANCE (FRA)	0800941634	0174180779	
> GERMANY (DEU)	08001014529	089710404600	
> GREECE (GRC)	0080016122038715		
> HONG KONG (HKG)		30508639	
> HUNGARY (HUN)	0680015305		
> ICELAND (ISL)	8008086		
> INDIA (IND)	0008001006005		
> 0008001005002		
> 0008000012011		
> 000182		
> INDONESIA (IDN)	0018030152030072		
> IRELAND (IRL)	1800719953	16530905	
> ISRAEL (ISR)	1809458715		
> ITALY (ITA)	800182599	200617507	
> JAPAN (JPN)	00531001557		
> KAZAKHSTAN (KAZ)	88003337317		
> KOREA, REPUBLIC OF (KOR)	00308140437		
> KYRGYZSTAN (KGZ)	0080070077706		
> LATVIA (LVA)	80000742		
> LUXEMBOURG (LUX)	80023947		
> MALAYSIA (MYS)	1800807136		
> MEXICO (MEX)	0018005148260		
> MOLDOVA, REPUBLIC OF (MDA)	080069001		
> MONACO (MCO)	80093340		
> NETHERLANDS (NLD)	08002658226	0207084835	
> NEW ZEALAND (NZL)	0800440066		
> NORWAY (NOR)	80056403	21033159	
> PANAMA (PAN)	008002269745		
> PERU (PER)	080070373	017057323	
> PHILIPPINES (PHL)	180011100764		
> POLAND (POL)	008001114567		
> PORTUGAL (PRT)	800780606		
> ROMANIA (ROM)	0800895088		
> RUSSIAN FEDERATION (RUS)	81080022641012		
> SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS (KNA)	18007449281		
> SINGAPORE (SGP)	8001011437	64944158	
> SLOVAKIA (SVK)	0800004237		
> SOUTH AFRICA (ZAF)	0800990941		
> SPAIN (ESP)	900800373	917911825	
> SWEDEN (SWE)	0201400591	0114966102	
> SWITZERLAND (CHE)	0800700285	0434569406	
> TAIWAN (TWN)	0809092289		
> TAJIKISTAN (TJK)	8108003337317		
> THAILAND (THA)	001800656917		
> UKRAINE (UKR)	88005042610		
> UNITED ARAB EMIRATES (ARE)	8000170894		
> UNITED KINGDOM (GBR)	08004960579	02079040084	
> UNITED STATES (USA)	8005048071	3032480281	
> URUGUAY (URY)	00040190114		
> UZBEKISTAN (UZB)	810800121006		
> VENEZUELA (VEN)	08001004179		
>
> *On-net numbers may not be available in all areas of the countries  
> indicated.
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development

--Apple-Mail-2-682284448
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>Tools Dev Call =
2-13-09</div><div><br></div><div>Attendees</div><div>Henrik</div><div>Lucy=
</div><div>Bob</div><div>Ray</div><div><br></div><div>Draft =
Agenda:</div><div><br></div><div>1. &nbsp;SF Code Sprint =
-&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Henrik =
-&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;Robert running it; no =
details</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;H - will set up repository to =
assist</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;Work? - Probably eliminate old Perl =
scripts</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;Pasi IESG Agenda work will eliminate =
another old Perl scripts</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;Moving to Django 1.0 at =
some point</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;Sprint Pages contains listing of work; =
not completed work list</div><div><br></div><div>Lucy - is the Virtual =
Machine up between Sprints? &nbsp;(Development =
Machine)</div><div><br></div><div>Henrik - a repository of work online; =
can work with copy of the database and run to it; only up if I leave a =
Development Machine running</div><div><br></div><div>Program - everyone =
commits to their own branch, which shows what's =
done</div><div><br></div><div>Revision Log - <a =
href=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/log/sprint/73">http://trac=
.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/log/sprint/73</a></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/log/branch/sprint-2007-van=
couver">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/log/branch/sprint-2007-van=
couver</a> - Vancouver &amp; Philly</div><div><br></div><div>2. =
&nbsp;tools.ietf.org - Backups and Failovers - Henrik</div><div>Backups =
- to other 4 servers every hour</div><div><br></div><div>Except for wiki =
server, if any other go down have to change one entry out of config file =
to switchover</div><div>Switchover manually takes 5 minutes, or couple =
hours</div><div><br></div><div>To do auto failover, maybe a week of work =
for me; maybe a month for someone else</div><div>a lot of details you =
need to know.</div><div><br></div><div>Have a 2 weeks vacation in June =
and want to do before then.</div><div><br></div><div>Want to have Pasi =
and Bill trained up to back me up. &nbsp;Need to check with =
them.</div><div><br></div><div>AMS as First =
Responder?</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;Harder to take someone w/o IETF insider =
knowledge - time to explain increases =
dramatically</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;No system =
documentation</div><div><br></div><div>Lucy - need to keep a bright line =
between tools and AMS; possibly Joel as a first =
responder?</div><div><br></div><div>3. &nbsp;Database Redesign =
Update&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;a. Data =
conversion</div><div><br></div><div>Henrik - hoping for reviews from =
some people on design docs</div><div>next step is the =
conversion</div><div>Plan to ship what I have Mon or Tuesday for Netnode =
conversion, then work on Tracker conversion</div><div><br></div><div>4. =
&nbsp;Other</div><div><br></div><div>5378</div><div>&nbsp;Henrik - a =
twist sent to Ed; boilerplate from 6b is different; permit both during =
transition</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;Lucy - what's the status of =
side by side comparison between IETF and AMS ARO?</div><div>Ray - =
derailed</div><div><br></div><div>Lucy - IETF work is progressing and =
work seems to be getting out of balance</div><div>Not a good sense of =
where work is</div><div><br></div><div>Ray - deserves a special =
call.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div>Next call: 13 =
March</div></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Feb 12, 2009, at 2:21 =
PM, Ray Pelletier wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">All;<br><br>A reminder of =
Friday's call at 10:00 AM EST for 60 minutes. &nbsp;Bridge info =
below.<br><br>Draft Agenda:<br><br>1. &nbsp;SF Code Sprint =
-&nbsp;<br><br>2. &nbsp;tools.ietf.org - Backups and Failovers - =
Henrik<br><br>3. &nbsp;Database Redesign Update<div><br></div><div>4. =
&nbsp;Other</div><div><br>Ray<br><br>Access Code: =
3269881<br><br>Country<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:=
 pre; ">	</span>Toll free number<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>Toll number<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>On-net*<br>ARGENTINA (ARG)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08008007323<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>01151717323<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>AUSTRALIA (AUS)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>1800359924<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>AUSTRIA (AUT)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800291800<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>BAHAMAS (BHS)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>18003890349<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>BELARUS (BLR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>882000110035<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>BELGIUM (BEL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>080039119<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>027924505<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>BOTSWANA (BWA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>002698003000557<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>BRAZIL (BRA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08008873239<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>01149497323<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>BULGARIA (BGR)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>008001151067<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>CANADA (CAN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8005048071<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>6477233983<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>CHILE (CHL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>800532833<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>CHINA =
UNIFIED (CHINA TELECOM)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8008190328<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>4006208035<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>COLOMBIA (COL)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>018009198715<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>COSTA =
RICA (CRI)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>08000150522<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>CROATIA (HRV)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800222927<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>CYPRUS (CYP)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>80096147<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>CZECH =
REPUBLIC (CZE)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span>800142548<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>DENMARK (DNK)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>80703116<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span>36927814<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><br>DOMINICAN REPUBLIC (DOM)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>18887514523<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; =
">	</span><br>ECUADOR (ECU)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>1800010184<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>ESTONIA (EST)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>8000100225<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>FINLAND (FIN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800772087<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0923193947<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>FRANCE (FRA)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0800941634<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>0174180779<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>GERMANY (DEU)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08001014529<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span>089710404600<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
pre; ">	</span><br>GREECE (GRC)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>0080016122038715<span =
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pre; ">	</span><br>URUGUAY (URY)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>00040190114<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>UZBEKISTAN (UZB)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>810800121006<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br>VENEZUELA (VEN)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>08001004179<span =
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class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	=
</span><br><br>*On-net numbers may not be available in all areas of the =
countries =
indicated.<br>_______________________________________________<br>TOOLS-DEV=
ELOPMENT mailing list<br><a =
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></div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-2-682284448--

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:27:20 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: Re: IPR Questions in PROTO Write-up

Would it be difficult to search the IPR disclosures for the draft 
name and include the link in the Last Call template when one exists?

Russ

>when there are IPR disclosures there is not an easy way
>to track that state with the draft as it moves through the system (I
>know that this sort of db linking has been a windmill I have jousted
>at for a couple  years). Either we need to:
>
>         - require that it is stated as a part of the LC announcements (WG,
>IETF, IESG); perhaps done by hand by the AD (as the doc shepherd
>doesn't have access to the tools).
>         - nice, easy linking via a revision to the tools to track all state
>(e.g. add it to Pasi's tools) including disclosure date and draft-xx
>(if appropriate)
>
>Unless all the data is linked together I know I can't track it all in
>my head or even easily in the db that I use to track via a pseudo
>state machine.

Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:20:54 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: Re: IPR Questions in PROTO Write-up

Hi Russ,

On 2009-02-15 17:27 Russ Housley said the following:
> Would it be difficult to search the IPR disclosures for the draft 
> name and include the link in the Last Call template when one exists?

If done within Django, then 'not particularly'.  As an easier-to-test
exercise I re-worked the IESG agenda to include IPR information; I don't
know if you necessarily want the agenda to look like this example, but
it illustrates the idea, I guess.  About 45 minutes work:

  http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/iesg/agenda/2009-02-12/

I'm not sure right now how the Last Call emails are generated -- is that
part of the private idtracker.cgi, or is it a standalone tool?

Best,

	Henrik

> 
> Russ
> 
> 
>> when there are IPR disclosures there is not an easy way
>> to track that state with the draft as it moves through the system (I
>> know that this sort of db linking has been a windmill I have jousted
>> at for a couple  years). Either we need to:
>>
>>         - require that it is stated as a part of the LC announcements (WG,
>> IETF, IESG); perhaps done by hand by the AD (as the doc shepherd
>> doesn't have access to the tools).
>>         - nice, easy linking via a revision to the tools to track all state
>> (e.g. add it to Pasi's tools) including disclosure date and draft-xx
>> (if appropriate)
>>
>> Unless all the data is linked together I know I can't track it all in
>> my head or even easily in the db that I use to track via a pseudo
>> state machine.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
> 

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:18:48 +1300
From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Organization: University of Auckland
To: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: Re: IPR Questions in PROTO Write-up

Henrik,

I can't speak for the current ADs of course, but I would
have been delighted to have these links in the agenda
while I was an AD. (Well, maybe "delighted" is the wrong
word, but I think they're extremely useful.)

Having them in the detailed info page in the tracker would
also be extremely useful, expecially since the Last Call
message points to that.

For the last call, even a one-bit flag saying "IPR disclosed"
would be useful.

   Brian

On 2009-02-16 07:20, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Russ,
> 
> On 2009-02-15 17:27 Russ Housley said the following:
>> Would it be difficult to search the IPR disclosures for the draft 
>> name and include the link in the Last Call template when one exists?
> 
> If done within Django, then 'not particularly'.  As an easier-to-test
> exercise I re-worked the IESG agenda to include IPR information; I don't
> know if you necessarily want the agenda to look like this example, but
> it illustrates the idea, I guess.  About 45 minutes work:
> 
>   http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/iesg/agenda/2009-02-12/
> 
> I'm not sure right now how the Last Call emails are generated -- is that
> part of the private idtracker.cgi, or is it a standalone tool?
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 	Henrik
> 
>> Russ
>>
>>
>>> when there are IPR disclosures there is not an easy way
>>> to track that state with the draft as it moves through the system (I
>>> know that this sort of db linking has been a windmill I have jousted
>>> at for a couple  years). Either we need to:
>>>
>>>         - require that it is stated as a part of the LC announcements (WG,
>>> IETF, IESG); perhaps done by hand by the AD (as the doc shepherd
>>> doesn't have access to the tools).
>>>         - nice, easy linking via a revision to the tools to track all state
>>> (e.g. add it to Pasi's tools) including disclosure date and draft-xx
>>> (if appropriate)
>>>
>>> Unless all the data is linked together I know I can't track it all in
>>> my head or even easily in the db that I use to track via a pseudo
>>> state machine.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
> 

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:23:20 -0500
To: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: Re: IPR Questions in PROTO  Write-up

The Last Call text is part of the IESG Datatracker.

I have no objection to the IPR link being added to the agenda as 
well, but I think it would be more valuable in Last Call.

Russ

At 01:20 PM 2/15/2009, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>Hi Russ,
>
>On 2009-02-15 17:27 Russ Housley said the following:
> > Would it be difficult to search the IPR disclosures for the draft
> > name and include the link in the Last Call template when one exists?
>
>If done within Django, then 'not particularly'.  As an easier-to-test
>exercise I re-worked the IESG agenda to include IPR information; I don't
>know if you necessarily want the agenda to look like this example, but
>it illustrates the idea, I guess.  About 45 minutes work:
>
>   http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/iesg/agenda/2009-02-12/
>
>I'm not sure right now how the Last Call emails are generated -- is that
>part of the private idtracker.cgi, or is it a standalone tool?
>
>
>Best,
>
>         Henrik
>
> >
> > Russ
> >
> >
> >> when there are IPR disclosures there is not an easy way
> >> to track that state with the draft as it moves through the system (I
> >> know that this sort of db linking has been a windmill I have jousted
> >> at for a couple  years). Either we need to:
> >>
> >>         - require that it is stated as a part of the LC announcements (WG,
> >> IETF, IESG); perhaps done by hand by the AD (as the doc shepherd
> >> doesn't have access to the tools).
> >>         - nice, easy linking via a revision to the tools to 
> track all state
> >> (e.g. add it to Pasi's tools) including disclosure date and draft-xx
> >> (if appropriate)
> >>
> >> Unless all the data is linked together I know I can't track it all in
> >> my head or even easily in the db that I use to track via a pseudo
> >> state machine.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
> >

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:33:00 -0500
To: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>,[email-masked], [email-masked]
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: IESG <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Ballot generating bug?

This tool is maintained by the volunteers, not the 
Secretariat.  Please send Tracker bugs
to [email-masked].

Russ

At 10:25 AM 2/16/2009, Magnus Westerlund wrote:
>Hi,
>
>This bug report concerns result from page:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=ballot_writeup&filename=draft-ietf-rserpool-mib&ballot_id=512
>
>When I Issued the ballot for draft-ietf-rserpool-mib it resulted in the
>below message extract. Please note the IESG contact persons, and that it
>also talks about version 01, while the version on the table for approval
>is 11. This document has been in AD is watching state for a long time
>when Allison was AD. My conclusion is that only parts of the message is
>regenerated when I as AD hist Issue the ballot button.
>
>To me it seems strange that the whole messages isn't generated based on
>the current information rather than old, potentially stale information.
>
>Can you please look into this?
>
>Thanks
>
>Magnus
>
>---- following is a DRAFT of message to be sent AFTER approval ---
>From: The IESG <[email-masked]>
>To: IETF-Announce <[email-masked]>
>Cc: Internet Architecture Board <[email-masked]>,
>     RFC Editor <[email-masked]>,
>     rserpool mailing list <[email-masked]>, rserpool chair
>     <[email-masked]>, rserpool chair <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Protocol Action: 'Reliable Server Pooling : Management
>          Information Base using SMIv2' to None
>
>The IESG has approved the following document:
>
>- 'Reliable Server Pooling : Management Information Base using SMIv2 '
>    <draft-ietf-rserpool-mib-01.txt> as a None
>
>This document is the product of the Reliable Server Pooling Working
>Group.
>
>The IESG contact persons are Jon Peterson and Allison Mankin.
>
>Technical Summary:
>
>This document defines a SMIv2 compliant Management
>Information Base (MIB) providing access to managed objects
>in an implementation of the Reliable Server Pool architecture and
>protocols. It is intended as an Experimental Track RFC.
>
>Working Group Summary
>
>This document has been reviewed by Rserpool protocol experts
>within the WG and no controversy or difficulty was encountered with
>obtaining consensus on this document.
>
>Document Quality
>
>There are no implementations of the MIB at this time, but
>a number of researchers have implemented the protocols and
>reviewed the MIB specification based on their work.
>MIB Directorate review was performed by Bert Wijnen.
>
>
>Personnel
>
>Lyndon Ong, co-chair of the Rserpool WG, is shepherd for
>this document.
>
>Magnus Westerlund provided review as the responsible Area
>Director.
>
>--
>
>Magnus Westerlund
>
>IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ericsson AB                | Phone  +46 10 7148287
>F�r�gatan 6                | Mobile +46 73 0949079
>SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: [email-masked]
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:04:31 -0500
To: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>,[email-masked], [email-masked]
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: IESG <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Ballot generating bug?

I made a mistake on this one.  This is part of the IESG Tracker, 
which has not yet been converted to Django.  We are still using the 
old perl code for this, so it is under Secretariat maintenance.

Russ

At 10:33 AM 2/16/2009, Russ Housley wrote:
>This tool is maintained by the volunteers, not the 
>Secretariat.  Please send Tracker bugs
>to [email-masked].
>
>Russ
>
>At 10:25 AM 2/16/2009, Magnus Westerlund wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>This bug report concerns result from page:
>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=ballot_writeup&filename=draft-ietf-rserpool-mib&ballot_id=512
>>
>>When I Issued the ballot for draft-ietf-rserpool-mib it resulted in the
>>below message extract. Please note the IESG contact persons, and that it
>>also talks about version 01, while the version on the table for approval
>>is 11. This document has been in AD is watching state for a long time
>>when Allison was AD. My conclusion is that only parts of the message is
>>regenerated when I as AD hist Issue the ballot button.
>>
>>To me it seems strange that the whole messages isn't generated based on
>>the current information rather than old, potentially stale information.
>>
>>Can you please look into this?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Magnus
>>
>>---- following is a DRAFT of message to be sent AFTER approval ---
>>From: The IESG <[email-masked]>
>>To: IETF-Announce <[email-masked]>
>>Cc: Internet Architecture Board <[email-masked]>,
>>     RFC Editor <[email-masked]>,
>>     rserpool mailing list <[email-masked]>, rserpool chair
>>     <[email-masked]>, rserpool chair <[email-masked]>
>>Subject: Protocol Action: 'Reliable Server Pooling : Management
>>          Information Base using SMIv2' to None
>>
>>The IESG has approved the following document:
>>
>>- 'Reliable Server Pooling : Management Information Base using SMIv2 '
>>    <draft-ietf-rserpool-mib-01.txt> as a None
>>
>>This document is the product of the Reliable Server Pooling Working
>>Group.
>>
>>The IESG contact persons are Jon Peterson and Allison Mankin.
>>
>>Technical Summary:
>>
>>This document defines a SMIv2 compliant Management
>>Information Base (MIB) providing access to managed objects
>>in an implementation of the Reliable Server Pool architecture and
>>protocols. It is intended as an Experimental Track RFC.
>>
>>Working Group Summary
>>
>>This document has been reviewed by Rserpool protocol experts
>>within the WG and no controversy or difficulty was encountered with
>>obtaining consensus on this document.
>>
>>Document Quality
>>
>>There are no implementations of the MIB at this time, but
>>a number of researchers have implemented the protocols and
>>reviewed the MIB specification based on their work.
>>MIB Directorate review was performed by Bert Wijnen.
>>
>>
>>Personnel
>>
>>Lyndon Ong, co-chair of the Rserpool WG, is shepherd for
>>this document.
>>
>>Magnus Westerlund provided review as the responsible Area
>>Director.
>>
>>--
>>
>>Magnus Westerlund
>>
>>IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Ericsson AB                | Phone  +46 10 7148287
>>F�r�gatan 6                | Mobile +46 73 0949079
>>SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: [email-masked]
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:15:03 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: Re: IPR Questions in PROTO  Write-up

Hi Russ,

On 2009-02-16 16:23 Russ Housley said the following:
> The Last Call text is part of the IESG Datatracker.

Ah.  And ouch.

I can look at replicating that particular functionality in Django,
but not until next week.  It will also need the login functionality
which we're planning to finish during the sprint; so it looks to
me as if we can reasonably produce this update of the Last Call
after the sprint, not earlier (unless somebody feels like going
in and messing with the old perl code).

> I have no objection to the IPR link being added to the agenda as 
> well, but I think it would be more valuable in Last Call.

Understood.

	Henrik

> Russ
> 
> At 01:20 PM 2/15/2009, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> Hi Russ,
>>
>> On 2009-02-15 17:27 Russ Housley said the following:
>>> Would it be difficult to search the IPR disclosures for the draft
>>> name and include the link in the Last Call template when one exists?
>> If done within Django, then 'not particularly'.  As an easier-to-test
>> exercise I re-worked the IESG agenda to include IPR information; I don't
>> know if you necessarily want the agenda to look like this example, but
>> it illustrates the idea, I guess.  About 45 minutes work:
>>
>>   http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/iesg/agenda/2009-02-12/
>>
>> I'm not sure right now how the Last Call emails are generated -- is that
>> part of the private idtracker.cgi, or is it a standalone tool?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>         Henrik
>>
>>> Russ
>>>
>>>
>>>> when there are IPR disclosures there is not an easy way
>>>> to track that state with the draft as it moves through the system (I
>>>> know that this sort of db linking has been a windmill I have jousted
>>>> at for a couple  years). Either we need to:
>>>>
>>>>         - require that it is stated as a part of the LC announcements (WG,
>>>> IETF, IESG); perhaps done by hand by the AD (as the doc shepherd
>>>> doesn't have access to the tools).
>>>>         - nice, easy linking via a revision to the tools to 
>> track all state
>>>> (e.g. add it to Pasi's tools) including disclosure date and draft-xx
>>>> (if appropriate)
>>>>
>>>> Unless all the data is linked together I know I can't track it all in
>>>> my head or even easily in the db that I use to track via a pseudo
>>>> state machine.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
>>> [email-masked]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
> 

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:06:02 -0800
From: Glen <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Ballot generating bug?

>> At 10:25 AM 2/16/2009, Magnus Westerlund wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> This bug report concerns result from page:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/cgi-bin/idtracker.cgi?command=ballot_writeup&filename=draft-ietf-rserpool-mib&ballot_id=512
>>> When I Issued the ballot for draft-ietf-rserpool-mib it resulted in the
>>> below message extract. Please note the IESG contact persons, and that it
>>> also talks about version 01, while the version on the table for approval
>>> is 11. This document has been in AD is watching state for a long time
>>> when Allison was AD. My conclusion is that only parts of the message is
>>> regenerated when I as AD hist Issue the ballot button.
>>> To me it seems strange that the whole messages isn't generated based on
>>> the current information rather than old, potentially stale information.
>>> Can you please look into this?

Hi Magnus -

Matt took a look at this, and reports the following:

---snip---

The script provides the user with three text boxes containing either
generic boilerplate (for a new ballot), or the contents of the previous
ballot (for IDs with a prior ballot).

Beneath the section for the announcement text is a button labeled
"Regenerate Approval Announcement Text".

When this button is clicked, the [correct] text appears in the Draft
Announcement box.

This updated text appears to resolve all of Magnus' concerns.

It seems, then, that the solution for getting the datatracker to
re-generate the Draft Announcement is built in to the program in the
form of that button.

---snip---

Please let us know if you need anything further, or if we're looking at
two different things?

Glen

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:15:19 -0800
From: Glen <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: Re: IPR Questions in PROTO  Write-up

Russ Housley wrote:
> The Last Call text is part of the IESG Datatracker.
> I have no objection to the IPR link being added to the agenda as well,
> but I think it would be more valuable in Last Call.

Turns out Matt was already working on this, and got it added today.

We have not been able to test, because we're not wanting to issue a Last
Call just to test this.

But if you'll keep an eye on last calls with IPRs going forward, and
look for the links, that'd be great.  Just let us know if any changes
are needed.

Thanks!

Glen

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:47:29 -0500
To: Glen <[email-masked]>
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: Re: IPR Questions in PROTO   Write-up

Thanks.

At 01:15 PM 2/17/2009, Glen wrote:
>Russ Housley wrote:
> > The Last Call text is part of the IESG Datatracker.
> > I have no objection to the IPR link being added to the agenda as well,
> > but I think it would be more valuable in Last Call.
>
>Turns out Matt was already working on this, and got it added today.
>
>We have not been able to test, because we're not wanting to issue a Last
>Call just to test this.
>
>But if you'll keep an eye on last calls with IPRs going forward, and
>look for the links, that'd be great.  Just let us know if any changes
>are needed.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Glen

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:02:26 +0100
From: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>
To: Glen <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], IESG <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Ballot generating bug?

Hi Glen,

>
> The script provides the user with three text boxes containing either
> generic boilerplate (for a new ballot), or the contents of the previous
> ballot (for IDs with a prior ballot).
>
> Beneath the section for the announcement text is a button labeled
> "Regenerate Approval Announcement Text".
>
> When this button is clicked, the [correct] text appears in the Draft
> Announcement box.
>
> This updated text appears to resolve all of Magnus' concerns.
>
> It seems, then, that the solution for getting the datatracker to
> re-generate the Draft Announcement is built in to the program in the
> form of that button.
>

This may very well be true, but why should I as user press the button to
regenerate the draft approval message that goes into the Balloting
message. If one at all edits the approval message that happens after one
has done the balloting. So I don't see why the approval messages is
automatically generated in the balloting message.

Maybe this particular issue isn't that important. It doesn't break
anything for real, only is annoying as stale data is sent out. But the
whole user flow of these pages needs a serious redesign when we get to
update the IESG tracker. I think I never needed to edit a approval
message in my whole AD career. I think some others have had to. But this
is a less than 1% thing. Thus, rethinking both the last call message and
approval message generation should be done.

To me a reasonable design would have a check box that says "Use default"
and shows the default (non-editable) below. First when one unchecks this
does one get a editing window and can change the message. That way there
is never any question what is used.

> ---snip---
>
> Please let us know if you need anything further, or if we're looking at
> two different things?

>From my perspective the Issue Ballot code should per default execute the
regenerate the Draft approval message that goes into the ballot.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund

IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone  +46 10 7148287
F�r�gatan 6                | Mobile +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: [email-masked]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:34:32 -0800
From: Glen <[email-masked]>
To: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], IESG <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Ballot generating bug?

Magnus Westerlund wrote:
> Hi Glen,
> This may very well be true, but why should I as user press the button to
> regenerate the draft approval message that goes into the Balloting
> message. If one at all edits the approval message that happens after one
> has done the balloting. So I don't see why the approval messages is
> automatically generated in the balloting message.
> ...
> To me a reasonable design would have a check box that says "Use default"
> and shows the default (non-editable) below. First when one unchecks this
> does one get a editing window and can change the message. That way there
> is never any question what is used.
> ... 
> From my perspective the Issue Ballot code should per default execute the
> regenerate the Draft approval message that goes into the ballot.

Hi Magnus -

I understand and agree with everything you said.  And I don't know why /
see why, either, except to say, "That's how the tool was written long
before we inherited it."

To *me*, a reasonable design would be to trash the entire IESG
datatracker, and have a single datatracker that works properly, and is
useful, rather than this ancient thing from decades past.  Fortunately,
movement is happening in that direction.  I am at the moment involved in
offline discussions about the tactics of implementation of upgrades with
Henrik, Bill and Pasi.

By way of speculation only, I think that what happens is the system (a)
generates default text when the ballot is first made, (b) allows that
default text to be modified at that time, and (c) saves the modified
text with the ballot, thus allowing it to (d) re-offer that modified
text by default if a ballot is regenerated.  So "the default" is to use
the modified text, if it exists - which may explain why the button is
there, and why you have to press it to restore the (updated) default text.

I hope this helps.

Warm regards,
Glen

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
To: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:18:51 -0800
Cc: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

Looks like

enscript --media=Letter -2 -r -A 2 -B -c -f Courier@8/8.5 -L 58 -N n - 
T 1 --filter="~/bin/stripfinalff < %s" --non-printable- 
format=questionmark -o - !* | lpr -osides=two-sided-short-edge

and the stripfinalff script is

#!/usr/bin/perl
undef $/;
$_ = <>;
s/(.*)\f\s$/\1/;
print;

It prints most, but not all drafts in a nice 2 up form. Some drafts  
that pass idnits gets some text cut off but I decided that i i could  
not read 5 or 10% of a draft, oh well :-)

On Feb 12, 2009, at 4:44 , <[email-masked]> <[email-masked] 
 > wrote:

> BTW, what does that enscript command line (or its output)
> look like?
>
> I, too, have enscript+pstools+ps2pdf+acrobat command line that prints
> drafts just how I like them. But if there's enough common with how
> you, I, Lisa like them, perhaps others would like that, too, and the
> web site could provide these.
>
> BTW -- IMHO eventually the link on the agenda page (and wherever a
> draft name is shown) should go to a page like this (not just the
> ASCII or HTML version):
>
> http://db.tools.ietf.org/docs/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec/
>
> [Comments about that page are welcome -- it's currently
> very much work in progress]
>
> Best regards,
> Pasi
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
> > Behalf Of ext Cullen Jennings
> > Sent: 12 February, 2009 07:06
> > To: Lisa Dusseault
> > Cc: Jari Arkko; Russ Housley; [email-masked];
> > [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: IESG Telechat Agenda Change
> >
> >
> > On Feb 11, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Lisa Dusseault wrote:
> >
> > > I like using the tools.ietf.org versions because they actually  
> do a
> > > better job of printing for me (straight from Firefox, 2-up
> > or 2-up-2-
> > > sided) so I like links straight to tools.  I don't print every
> > > document.   Just another use case,
> >
> > Interesting - one of the primary reasons I screen scrape was so I
> > could print them with this huge enscript command line that gets them
> > just how I like them. I'll have to try doing it your way.
> >
> >
> >

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
To: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:20:56 -0800
Cc: Jari Arkko <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IESG Telechat Agenda Change

SOrry for just getting back to this, but many thanks. I thing I now  
owe you a million and 1 beers.

On Feb 12, 2009, at 2:15 , Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> Hi Cullen,
>
> On 2009-02-12 00:18 Cullen Jennings said the following:
>> So this broke my screen scraping tools - I have not really looked at
>> why.
>>
>> Part of it is that the url
>>
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/?public
>>
>> redirects you to the https URL and for some reason
>>
>> wget "http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/?public"
>>
>> won't work because it thinks it is a self signed cert on my mac. No
>> idea why - it looks like a good cert to me.
>>
>> Can we not require https to view the public agenda?
>
> This may be a policy decision.  I don't the background to why the
> datatracker is available only over https, but it may be that it takes
> an IESG decision to make it available also over http.
>
>> The links in the agenda point at things like
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec
>>
>> which instantly redirects to something like
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-05
>>
>> Could we make the links in the agenda point to
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-flow-spec-05
>
> Done in the development version at
>  http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/iesg/agenda/
>
> -- see if that works better for you.
>
>> That way everyone existing screen scrapping tools would work.  The
>> screen scraping tool I am using is a hack of EKR tool that downloads
>> any new drafts that have added to the agenda and prints them.
>>
>>
>> Alternatively, could we have some new URL like
>>
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/agenda/package
>>
>> That you could do a wget on and it returned a tar ball of all the
>> drafts on this weeks agenda?
>
> As mentioned in an earlier mail, quite possible, but more work than
> fixing the page template to fix the immediate problem.
>
> Regards,
>
> 	Henrik
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2009, at 3:17 PM, Jari Arkko wrote:
>>
>>> Russ,
>>>
>>>> 1) display of the revision number (which your proposal would  
>>>> resolve)
>>> Yep.
>>>
>>>> 2) ability to fetch a plain text file (which your proposal does not
>>>> quite resolve)
>>> Well, its one further click away; you get to the right version by
>>> clicking, but you'd have to click again to get the text version.
>>>
>>> But I now realize that other people want to look at drafts in a
>>> different way than I do. It could be that I'm in a minority. I don't
>>> mind keeping the agenda the way it was.
>>>
>>>> However, I's be even happier with a button that fetched all of the
>>>> I-Ds that are on the whole agenda.
>>> rsync -avz --delete www1.ietf.org::internet-drafts i-d
>>>
>>> Jari
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>>
>

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:31:16 +0100
From: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>
To: Glen <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], IESG <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Ballot generating bug?

Glen skrev:
> Magnus Westerlund wrote:
>> Hi Glen,
>> This may very well be true, but why should I as user press the button to
>> regenerate the draft approval message that goes into the Balloting
>> message. If one at all edits the approval message that happens after one
>> has done the balloting. So I don't see why the approval messages is
>> automatically generated in the balloting message.
>> ...
>> To me a reasonable design would have a check box that says "Use default"
>> and shows the default (non-editable) below. First when one unchecks this
>> does one get a editing window and can change the message. That way there
>> is never any question what is used.
>> ... 
>> From my perspective the Issue Ballot code should per default execute the
>> regenerate the Draft approval message that goes into the ballot.
> 
> Hi Magnus -
> 
> I understand and agree with everything you said.  And I don't know why /
> see why, either, except to say, "That's how the tool was written long
> before we inherited it."
> 
> To *me*, a reasonable design would be to trash the entire IESG
> datatracker, and have a single datatracker that works properly, and is
> useful, rather than this ancient thing from decades past.  Fortunately,
> movement is happening in that direction.  I am at the moment involved in
> offline discussions about the tactics of implementation of upgrades with
> Henrik, Bill and Pasi.

I agree that the tracker should be one, but have a number of roles that
different users can have: IESG, WG chair, RFC-editor, and IANA that
allows different manipulations of the data.

> 
> By way of speculation only, I think that what happens is the system (a)
> generates default text when the ballot is first made, (b) allows that
> default text to be modified at that time, and (c) saves the modified
> text with the ballot, thus allowing it to (d) re-offer that modified
> text by default if a ballot is regenerated.  So "the default" is to use
> the modified text, if it exists - which may explain why the button is
> there, and why you have to press it to restore the (updated) default text.

Yes, I agree with your analysis of how it works. I can live with the
issues for now. If it is a simple fix, like putting in a regeneration
function call in the "issue the ballot" code, then doing that could have
its point. From my perspective that doesn't have any downsides. But it
might and I guess that is the issue and that it takes time to figure
that out.

When we can start the implementation of the IESG role in the new data
tracker we really should do some work flow designs and try to figure out
how make things easier and more logical to work with.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund

IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone  +46 10 7148287
Färögatan 6                | Mobile +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: [email-masked]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:47:11 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IPR Disclosure text hard to find

Here is an example: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1096/

I find the placement of the link to see the actual document that was 
submitted very difficult to find.  It got worse when the blue box got 
added.  This is just a grumble, but I suspect other find this 
difficult to use as well.

Russ

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:48:14 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
To: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IPR Disclosure text hard to find

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Hi Russ,

On 2009-02-19 20:47 Russ Housley said the following:
> Here is an example: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1096/
>=20
> I find the placement of the link to see the actual document that was=20
> submitted very difficult to find.  It got worse when the blue box got=20
> added.  This is just a grumble, but I suspect other find this=20
> difficult to use as well.

Here's a minor facelift:

	http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/ipr/1096/

If you find that to be an improvement, I'll include it in the next
minor release.

Regards,

	Henrik

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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 08:07:04 -0500
To: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] IPR Disclosure text hard to find

 >> Here is an example: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1096/
 >> I find the placement of the link to see the actual document that was
 >> submitted very difficult to find.  It got worse when the blue box got
 >> added.  This is just a grumble, but I suspect other find this
 >> difficult to use as well.
 >
 > Here's a minor facelift:
 >
 >	http://merlot.tools.ietf.org:31415/ipr/1096/
 >
 > If you find that to be an improvement, I'll include it in the next
 > minor release.

Wow.  That a lot better.  Thanks so much.

Russ