Subject: [rtcweb] Straw Poll on Video Codec Alternatives

From: Miguel Casas-sanchez <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 13:30:07 +0100

1.

   All entities MUST support H.264
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      2.

   All entities MUST support VP8
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: YES
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      3.

   All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      4.

   Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities MUST support at
   least one of H.264 and VP8
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      5.

   All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      6.

   All entities MUST support H.261
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      7.

   There is no MTI video codec
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      8.

   All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST support at least
   one of H.264 and VP8
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      9.

   All entities MUST support Theora
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: ACCEPTABLE
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      10.

   All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.261}
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      11.

   All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.263}
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      12.

   All entities MUST support decoding using both H.264 and VP8, and MUST
   support encoding using at least one of H.264 or VP8
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      13.

   All entities MUST support H.263
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      14.

   All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, Theora}
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      15.

   All entities MUST support decoding using Theora.
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: NO
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:
      16.

   All entities MUST support Motion JPEG
   1.

      Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: ACCEPTABLE
      2.

      Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
      them:

-- 

Miguel Casas-Sanchez | Gatopardo del Software | [email-masked] | +46
(0)70 322 0306

---

From: Adrian Grange <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 09:14:49 -0800

1.  All entities MUST support H.264
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
     Complex licensing and burden of book-keeping is a big barrier,
particularly for small and medium sized operators. WebRTC is most likely to
succeed with fewer and lower barriers to entry where niche and innovative
businesses can operate more on a par with the big service providers.

 2.  All entities MUST support VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *YES*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:

 3.  All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *ACCEPTABLE (0.3)*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      Far from ideal. The higher implementation and maintenance burden of
specifying two codecs is a particular issue for smaller service providers,
but it does pass the 'guaranteed interoperability' test. Complex licensing
and burden of book-keeping for H.264 is a big barrier, particularly for
small and medium sized operators.

 4.  Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities MUST support
at least one of H.264 and VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      This fails the 'guaranteed interoperability' test, the major/sole
reason for an MTI codec, for operation between non-browser peers.

 5.  All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
     Fails the 'guaranteed interoperability' test, the major/sole reason
for an MTI codec.

 6.  All entities MUST support H.261
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      We should be planning for the future, not resurrecting the (distant)
past. H.261 does not do the right thing for the user, it does not make the
best available use of available bandwidth. Better options exist (VP8 being
my choice).

 7.  There is no MTI video codec
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *ACCEPTABLE (0.3)*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      Far from ideal in that it fails the 'guaranteed interoperability
test', but an acceptable placeholder if consensus cannot be reached.

 8.  All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST support at least
one of H.264 and VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
     In practice, this is little different to specifying H.261 as the MTI.
We should be planning for the future, not resurrecting the (distant) past.
H.261 does not do the right thing for the user, it does not make the best
available use of available bandwidth.

 9.  All entities MUST support Theora
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      We should be planning for the future, not resurrecting the past. VP8
is a better option.

10.  All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.261}
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      In practice, this is little different to specifying H.261 as the MTI.
We should be planning for the future, not resurrecting the (distant) past.
H.261 does not do the right thing for the user, it does not make the best
available use of available bandwidth.

11.  All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.263}
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
    In practice, this is little different to specifying H.263 as the MTI.
We should be planning for the future, not resurrecting the (distant) past.
H.263 does not do the right thing for the user, it does not make the best
available use of available bandwidth.

12.  All entities MUST support decoding using both H.264 and VP8, and MUST
support encoding using at least one of H.264 or VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *ACCEPTABLE (0.4)*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
     Better than inflicting the higher implementation and maintenance
burden of specifying two encoders, and does pass the
'guaranteed interoperability' test. Complex licensing and burden of
book-keeping for H.264 is a big barrier, particularly for small and medium
sized operators.

13.  All entities MUST support H.263
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      We should be planning for the future, not resurrecting the (distant)
past. H.263 does not do the right thing for the user, it does not make the
best available use of available bandwidth.

14.  All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, Theora}
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      In practice, this is little different to specifying Theora as the
MTI. We should be planning for the future, not resurrecting the past. VP8
is a better option.

15.  All entities MUST support decoding using Theora.
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      This fails the 'guaranteed interoperability' test, the major/sole
reason for an MTI codec. We should be planning for the future, not
resurrecting the past. VP8 is a better option.

16.  All entities MUST support Motion JPEG
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *NO*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
      Unacceptable compression performance and I suspect would not be used
in practice, so I believe this would fail the 'guaranteed interoperability'
test. Probably the worst of the proposed options.

---

From: Michael Gorham <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:05:59 -0700

1. All entities MUST support H.264
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
*Too many IPR/licensing issues. Changes to a "Yes" if the H.264 baseline
profile actually becomes royalty-free.*

2. All entities MUST support VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *Yes*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:

3. All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
*IPR/licensing issues **issues**.*

4. Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities MUST support at
least one of H.264 and VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
*IPR/licensing issues **issues**.*

5. All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
them:
*IPR/licensing issues **issues AND **would require transcoding in certain
use cases.*

6. All entities MUST support H.261
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
them:
*Poor quality.*

7. There is no MTI video codec
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
them:
*This may not allow interoperability**. A MTI video codec is imperative for
this day and age.*

8. All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST support at least
one of H.264 and VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
them:
*Poor quality of H.261**.*

9. All entities MUST support Theora
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *Acceptable*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
them:

10. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.261}
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
them:
*Poor quality of H.261** and H.264 l**icensing issues**.*

11. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.263}
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
*See 5b.*

12. All entities MUST support decoding using both H.264 and VP8, and MUST
support encoding using at least one of H.264 or VP8
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *Acceptable*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
*Acceptable, given there are no **IPR/licensing issues **decoding H.264.*

13. All entities MUST support H.263
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
them: *Licensing situation for H.263 is unclear.  Yes, if no *
*IPR/licensing issues**.*

14. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, Theora}
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
*See 9.b.*

15. All entities MUST support decoding using Theora.
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *Acceptable*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize
them:

16. All entities MUST support Motion JPEG
  a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
  b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
*Poor quality.*

---

From: Daniel-Constantin Mierla <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 23:30:03 +0100

1. All entities MUST support H.264
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*Too many IPR issues and licensing constraints that makes its usage 
effectively impossible in a lot of cases****. It has royalty fees (some 
known, but many unknown) -- imposing a financial revenue from 
implementers/users towards various companies via Internet/IEFT standards 
is beyond common sense, openness for everyone and target for innovation 
that governed Internet evolution so far. Full hardware H.264 
encoders/decoders don't really exist at scale, especially on exiting 
mobile devices where it would be relevant, or at least not exposed to 
any third parties -- expecting that some vendors will do it is 
comparable with expecting all claims of VP8 IPR will be dismissed.
*

3. All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*Too many already known IPR, licensing and other kinds of issues for 
H.264 (See 1)****.*

*Too many already known IPR, licensing and other kinds of issues for 
H.264 (See 1)**.*
*

*
5. All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*R**equires transcoding to operate with all of 'fully compliant' 
implementations and, with that, exposes to all the issues of H.264.*

7. There is no MTI video codec
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *Acceptable*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*Better let the market to decide than impose upfront a wrong choice**.*

8. All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST support at 
least one of H.264 and VP8
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *Acceptable*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
**

11. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.263}
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*No if there are risks on**H.263 IPR/licensing***not to be royalty free 
for all use cases*, then better use VP8 that has higher chances to be 
cleared out of issues. Yes, otherwise.

*

12. All entities MUST support decoding using both H.264 and VP8, and 
MUST support encoding using at least one of H.264 or VP8
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *Acceptable*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*Only if there are no **IPR/licensing issues **decoding H.264.*

13. All entities MUST support H.263
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*If there are risks on**H.263 IPR/licensing***not to be royalty free for 
all use cases*, then better use VP8 that has higher chances to be 
cleared out of issues.**Yes, otherwise.*

14. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, Theora}
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *No*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*If there are risks on**Theora IPR/***licensing* not to be royalty free 
for all use cases, then better use VP8 that has higher chances to be 
cleared out of issues.**Yes, otherwise.

*
15. All entities MUST support decoding using Theora.
   a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]: *Acceptable*
   b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize 
them:
*Only if there are no **IPR/licensing issues **decoding Theora.*

*
*

-- 
Daniel-Constantin Mierla - http://www.asipto.com
http://twitter.com/#!/miconda - http://www.linkedin.com/in/miconda

---

From: Krasimir Kolarov <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 11:32:24 -0800

Here's my input:

1. All entities MUST support H.264
a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
YES
b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:

2. All entities MUST support VP8
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
VP8 has a formal declaration of unlicensable IPR, https://ietf.org/ipr/2035/ 

3. All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
VP8 has a formal declaration of unlicensable IPR, https://ietf.org/ipr/2035/ 

4. Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
VP8 has a formal declaration of unlicensable IPR, https://ietf.org/ipr/2035/ 
The term “browser” is not well defined in this context.

5. All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
YES
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
NO

6. All entities MUST support H.261
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
H.261 is no longer widely supported and is unlikely to be so if mandated here

7. There is no MTI video codec
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
Acceptable
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
Acceptable as outcome if no MTI consensus is reached.

8. All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
H.261 is no longer widely supported and is unlikely to be so if mandated here.

9. All entities MUST support Theora
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
Theora has unclear license situation and is not widely supported.

10. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.261}
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
H.261 is no longer widely supported and is unlikely to be so if mandated here.
VP8 has a formal declaration of unlicensable IPR, https://ietf.org/ipr/2035/ 

11. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.263}
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
YES
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
NO

12. All entities MUST support decoding using both H.264 and VP8, and MUST support encoding using at least one of H.264 or VP8
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
VP8 has a formal declaration of unlicensable IPR, https://ietf.org/ipr/2035/ 

13. All entities MUST support H.263
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
Acceptable
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
NO

14. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, Theora}
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
VP8 has a formal declaration of unlicensable IPR, https://ietf.org/ipr/2035/ 
Theora has unclear license situation and is not widely supported.

15. All entities MUST support decoding using Theora.
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
NO
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
Theora has unclear license situation and is not widely supported.

16. All entities MUST support Motion JPEG
. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
Acceptable
a. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please summarize them:
NO

Krasimir