Subject: RE: Ombuds-process

From: "Elwyn Davies" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:21:39 +0100

I think what you are proposing here differs from what is usually labelled as
an ombuds-process or regarding the powers of an ombuds-person.

In most existing implementations the ombuds-person can only get involved
once the complainant has exhausted all the other avenues of appeal and got
nowhere.  What you seem to be proposing here is a sort of counsellor service
or citizens advice bureau to assist people in asserting their rights when
they aren't sure what to do.

It may be appropriate to have both.

Regards,
Elwyn 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: avri [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: 27 June 2003 01:59
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Ombuds-process
> 
> 
> [speaking personally]
> 
> 
> On fredag, jun 27, 2003, at 09:28 Asia/Seoul, Hallam-Baker, Phillip 
> wrote:
> >
> > PS: If you think that the appeals process is not equally broken
> > then why not prove me wrong by making the appeal yourself?
> >
> >
> 
> this brings up the problem that has appeared more in its guise
> as a solution on this list.
> 
> the IETF has no ombuds-process (leaving aside whether it is
> and individual or a group that implements it)
> 
> what i mean is that in cases where, for whatever reason:
> 
>     - language barrier
>     - fear of being ostracized
>     - belief in the process itself being valid
>     - ability to do all the work involved
>     - whatever
> 
> an individual does not take advantage of the process,
> there is no other recourse.  it can be argued that the
> nature of the process make it too difficult a barrier  for
> many to overcome,  sure, in the outside world,  we can
> all be our own lawyers, but how many of us are really
> qualified for such a role.  i think the same logic may
> apply in the IETF - how many of us are qualified to
> represent ourselves in the appeals process.
> and the lack of some entity that one can go to so and
> say 'help me, please' seems to me a problem.
> 
> so the problem may be:
> 
> There is no independent body in the IETF responsible for
> helping individuals who have process issues that may need
> redress.
> 
> (i assume body can mean open body, i.e. person, or several
> people in a group - that is a solution detail)
>   
> 
>