Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting plans status
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:27:40 +0100
List-Id: Network Management Research Group <nmrg.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>

>>>>> Frank Strauss writes:

Frank> From the feedback upon your first topics proposal
Frank> <[email-masked]> I got the
Frank> impression that there is still high interest in measurements of
Frank> real-world SNMP traffic.  Does it make sense to share thoughts
Frank> on the real problems with this effort (e.g., convincing
Frank> operators to participate, attaching to the right link(s) in
Frank> switched networks)?

I plan to handle this topic under the subject "how do we proceed with
other work items we agreed to work on in the past". I currently prefer
to handle this subject at the BOF meeting since I hope to have
actually more people in the BOF that might be interested and able to
help. Also, I am trying to get the weekend meetings well focussed so
that we really can dive into details.

I have already filed a request for an NMRG BOF at IM 2003 and it is
sitting in the queue of the BOF chair who needs to figure out the
logistics. Once the BOF is approved, I am able to write up a more
detailed agenda for the March meetings.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

From: Frank Strauss <[email-masked]>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
Cc: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting plans status
Date: 27 Jan 2003 21:19:42 +0100
Lines: 14
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi!

Juergen> [...] Does this plan make sense? Please comment.

Sounds good to me. 

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:07:48 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: [nmrg] meeting plans status
Sender: [email-masked]

Here is the list of positive (or potentially positive) responses I
have received:

Olivier Festor                  (LORIA-INRIA)                   Sa/So
Emmanuel Nataf                  (LORIA-INRIA)                   Sa/So
Juergen Schoenwaelder           (University of Osnabrueck)      Sa/So
Frank Strauss                   (TU Braunschweig)               Sa/So
Bert Wijnen                     (Lucent Technologies)           Sa/So 1)
Aiko Pras                       (University of Twente)          Sa/So 1)
George Pavlou                   (University of Surrey)             So
David Harrington                (Enterasys)                     Sa/So
Margaret Wasserman              (Wind River)                    Sa/So 2)

1) prefers to have Saturday a day off
2) not yet clear whether she can attend

[Let me know if this list is incorrect so that I can fix it.]

Given this distribution, what we could do is to have the main meeting
on Sunday where we go into XML schema mapping details based on Frank's
work and whatever input we receive before the meeting.

On Saturday, we could sit together in a smaller group figuring out
what we do with SMIng (or better discuss what we have figured out
before the meeting what we do with SMIng). Since Olivier, Emmanuel
(who wrote the Java SMIng implementation) and Frank are all there, we
should have the critical mass in place.

A discussion of what we do with the other unfinished work items could
either go on the Sunday agenda or even be moved to the BOF (if we get
one).

Does this plan make sense? Please comment.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:02:17 -0500
From: "Harrington, David" <[email-masked]>
To: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

I plan to attend both days.

dbh

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 5:27 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder writes:
> 
> Juergen> We now need to find agreement on how much time we want to
> Juergen> spend on this. I have no problem to spend Saturday and Sunday
> Juergen> but others might prefer to spend less time in order to enjoy
> Juergen> the snow. We could also go for two days but limit the meeting
> Juergen> time to say 6 hours per day. It also depends on whether
> Juergen> people will actually be available on Saturday in Colorado
> Juergen> Springs or whether they are still traveling into this
> Juergen> area. Your input is welcome - otherwise I will flip a coin.
> 
> To make the question cristal clear to everyone:
> 
> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Saturday, March 22?
> 
> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Sunday, March 23?
> 
> So far only Olivier gave a clear response. Please give me your input
> so that we can finalize the meeting date and to allow us to make
> travel plans.
> 
> /js
> 
> -- 
> Juergen Schoenwaelder    
<http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

-- 
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From: John Strassner <[email-masked]>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 01:37:00 -0700
Sender: [email-masked]

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I can attend both days.

regards,
John
 
John Strassner
Chief Strategy Officer
Intelliden Corporation
90 South Cascade Avenue
Colorado Springs, CO  80903  USA
phone: +1.719.785.0648
  FAX: +1.719.785.0644
email: [email-masked] 

-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 3:27 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march

>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder writes:

Juergen> We now need to find agreement on how much time we want to spend 
Juergen> on this. I have no problem to spend Saturday and Sunday but 
Juergen> others might prefer to spend less time in order to enjoy the 
Juergen> snow. We could also go for two days but limit the meeting time 
Juergen> to say 6 hours per day. It also depends on whether people will 
Juergen> actually be available on Saturday in Colorado Springs or 
Juergen> whether they are still traveling into this area. Your input is 
Juergen> welcome - otherwise I will flip a coin.

To make the question cristal clear to everyone:

Who will be able to attend a meeting on Saturday, March 22?

Who will be able to attend a meeting on Sunday, March 23?

So far only Olivier gave a clear response. Please give me your input so that
we can finalize the meeting date and to allow us to make travel plans.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

-- 
!! This message is brought to you via the `nmrg' mailing list. !! Please do
not reply to this message to unsubscribe. To unsubscribe or adjust !! your
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charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
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<TITLE>RE: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I can attend both days.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>John</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>John Strassner</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Chief Strategy Officer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Intelliden Corporation</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>90 South Cascade Avenue</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Colorado Springs, CO&nbsp; 80903&nbsp; USA</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>phone: +1.719.785.0648</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp; FAX: +1.719.785.0644</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>email: [email-masked] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</=
A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 3:27 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [email-masked]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Juergen Schoenwaelder =
writes:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen&gt; We now need to find agreement on how much =
time we want to spend </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen&gt; on this. I have no problem to spend =
Saturday and Sunday but </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen&gt; others might prefer to spend less time =
in order to enjoy the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen&gt; snow. We could also go for two days but =
limit the meeting time </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen&gt; to say 6 hours per day. It also depends =
on whether people will </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen&gt; actually be available on Saturday in =
Colorado Springs or </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen&gt; whether they are still traveling into =
this area. Your input is </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen&gt; welcome - otherwise I will flip a =
coin.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>To make the question cristal clear to =
everyone:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Who will be able to attend a meeting on Saturday, =
March 22?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Who will be able to attend a meeting on Sunday, March =
23?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>So far only Olivier gave a clear response. Please =
give me your input so that we can finalize the meeting date and to =
allow us to make travel plans.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>/js</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Juergen Schoenwaelder&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<A =
HREF=3D"http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/</A>&g=
t;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>!! This message is brought to you via the `nmrg' =
mailing list. !! Please do not reply to this message to unsubscribe. To =
unsubscribe or adjust !! your settings, send a mail message to =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; !! or look at <A =
HREF=3D"https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/mailman/listinfo/nmrg" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/mailman/listinfo/nmrg</A>.=
</FONT></P>

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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:34:11 +0100
From: Aiko Pras <[email-masked]>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
CC: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march
Sender: [email-masked]

Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> To make the question cristal clear to everyone:
> 
> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Saturday, March 22?
> 
> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Sunday, March 23?

I'll be able to attend on both days. I like Bert's proposal to meet sunday 
only, however ;-)

Aiko

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:07:07 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: [nmrg] more meeting info
Sender: [email-masked]

Someone asked where IM 2003 is located. I am not sure I posted the URL,
so I do it now:

   http://www.im2003.org/

(Yes, this will be a very cool event with great keynotes, an
 outstanding technical program, lively panel discussion, in great
 facilities ... - but what else should I say? No, seriously, look at
 the program and form your own opinion.)

Another question asked was who is actually invited to join the NMRG
meetings. Well, certainly everybody who hangs around on this mailing
list and who is willing to contribute.

As usual, I am also open for suggestions who should be invited to join
us and who could bring in specific expertise to make the meeting more
productive.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <[email-masked]>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:12:15 +0100
Sender: [email-masked]

> To make the question cristal clear to everyone:
> 
> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Saturday, March 22?
> 
> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Sunday, March 23?
> 
I can do both days, but would prefer a day off on the
saturday (after a long week of IETF in SF)

Bert

To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march 
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:16:01 +0000
From: George Pavlou <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Saturday, March 22?
> 
> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Sunday, March 23?

I will be able to attend on Sunday.

Rgs,
-George

From: Frank Strauss <[email-masked]>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march
Date: 22 Jan 2003 11:36:19 +0100
Lines: 8
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi!

Juergen> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Saturday, March 22?
Juergen> Who will be able to attend a meeting on Sunday, March 23?

Both days are fine with me.

 -frank

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:26:34 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march
Sender: [email-masked]

>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder writes:

Juergen> We now need to find agreement on how much time we want to
Juergen> spend on this. I have no problem to spend Saturday and Sunday
Juergen> but others might prefer to spend less time in order to enjoy
Juergen> the snow. We could also go for two days but limit the meeting
Juergen> time to say 6 hours per day. It also depends on whether
Juergen> people will actually be available on Saturday in Colorado
Juergen> Springs or whether they are still traveling into this
Juergen> area. Your input is welcome - otherwise I will flip a coin.

To make the question cristal clear to everyone:

Who will be able to attend a meeting on Saturday, March 22?

Who will be able to attend a meeting on Sunday, March 23?

So far only Olivier gave a clear response. Please give me your input
so that we can finalize the meeting date and to allow us to make
travel plans.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:55:46 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
CC: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [nmrg] nmrg plans for 2003
Sender: [email-masked]

>>>>> Frank Strauss writes:

DaveD> [DaveD] I would certainly like to see the current sming I-Ds
DaveD> completed suitable for publication. I think the SMIng documents
DaveD> need to be preserved as an effective approach to deal with the
DaveD> increasing entropy of the O&M data models. And, as mentioned,
DaveD> there is running code available for sming.

Frank> Just to avoid a false assumption: The SMIng code that is
Frank> available in libsmi is based on the pre-NMRG proposal. I.e., it
Frank> does not support the class construct and the separation of
Frank> protocol independant data structures and protocol mappings. And
Frank> it would also require some work to get it working again with
Frank> the rest of the libsmi infrastructure as it developed over the
Frank> past three years (yes it's really that old!).

To add to this: We have experimental code which implements one of the
newer specs written by a student which is however not part of the
distribution and which requires work to make it production quality.
But there is another implementation done in France which I think is
closer to the newer SMIng specs (and written in Java).

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

From: Frank Strauss <[email-masked]>
To: "Durham, David" <[email-masked]>
Cc: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [nmrg] nmrg plans for 2003
Date: 20 Jan 2003 23:49:21 +0100
Lines: 16
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi!

DaveD> [DaveD] I would certainly like to see the current sming I-Ds completed
DaveD> suitable for publication. I think the SMIng documents need to be
DaveD> preserved as an effective approach to deal with the increasing entropy
DaveD> of the O&M data models. And, as mentioned, there is running code
DaveD> available for sming. 

Just to avoid a false assumption: The SMIng code that is available in
libsmi is based on the pre-NMRG proposal. I.e., it does not support
the class construct and the separation of protocol independant data
structures and protocol mappings. And it would also require some work
to get it working again with the rest of the libsmi infrastructure as
it developed over the past three years (yes it's really that old!).

 -frank

From: "Durham, David" <[email-masked]>
To: "Durham, David" <[email-masked]>, Olivier Festor <[email-masked]>, Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>, Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [nmrg] nmrg plans for 2003
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:42:39 -0800
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Olivier Festor [mailto:[email-masked]]
> 
> 4) SMIng : Emmanuel Nataf, who actually did the SMIng JMX tool will be
> at IM. He is probably interested in contributing and can meet some of
> you there. He will probably stay at Colorado Springs for the NMRG
> meeting if we all agree that he is authroized to participate to this
> specific meeting. What do you think about that ?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Strauss [mailto:[email-masked]]
> 
> Turning the current I-D documents into something that could probably
> be published as an Informational RFC might make sense. Working on an
> article looks less reasonable to me. Just my thoughts. I could spend
> some time on it.

[DaveD] I would certainly like to see the current sming I-Ds completed
suitable for publication. I think the SMIng documents need to be
preserved as an effective approach to deal with the increasing entropy
of the O&M data models. And, as mentioned, there is running code
available for sming. 

Unfortunately, anything dealing with SNMP these days seems to suffer
from a blight of participation. On the positive side, this may be viewed
as an opportunity for a small community of individuals to make the
necessary improvements to keep these standards viable.

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:33:11 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: [nmrg] meeting(s) in march
Sender: [email-masked]

Given the feedback, I propose to actually hold two meetings in March.
Here is what I have in mind:

The first meeting will be a BOF at IM 2003. The idea here is to allow
IM attendees to join us in an informal get together and to chat about
what the NMRG is, what it has done, what future plans are or might be
and so on. I would like to use this BOF to see whether there is any
new blood out there which might be interested to work with us.

The second meeting will be held the weekend before IM 2003. We could
use Saturday (March 22) and Sunday (March 23) (or parts of these
days). This would be a technical meeting. A draft agenda might be:

0. Welcome and agenda bashing
1. Status reports and plans to drop/finish open work items
2. Reports on recent work by various NMRG contributors

2.1 Frank's work on SMI to XML schema mappings
2.2 Frank's work on SNMP to XML translators
2.3 Juergen's work on SMI MIB metrics
2.4 Olivier's work on ...
2.5 Aiko's work on ...
2.6 ... 

3. Actions plans, wrap up

The idea is to get a better overview what people are doing and to
challenge ideas with tough questions. Especially Frank's work seems to
be ready for that.

We now need to find agreement on how much time we want to spend on
this. I have no problem to spend Saturday and Sunday but others might
prefer to spend less time in order to enjoy the snow. We could also go
for two days but limit the meeting time to say 6 hours per day. It
also depends on whether people will actually be available on Saturday
in Colorado Springs or whether they are still traveling into this
area. Your input is welcome - otherwise I will flip a coin.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:30:00 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: [nmrg] rfc 3444 published
Sender: [email-masked]

We finally got another document published:

: Network Working Group                                            A. Pras
: Request for Comments: 3444                          University of Twente
: Category: Informational                                 J. Schoenwaelder
:                                                 University of Osnabrueck
:                                                             January 2003
: 
:                        On the Difference between
:                    Information Models and Data Models

Thanks to all contributors.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>

From: Frank Strauss <[email-masked]>
To: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [nmrg] nmrg plans for 2003
Date: 16 Jan 2003 14:13:36 +0100
Lines: 77
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi!

Juergen> I thought it would be a good idea to make plans what the NMRG wants
Juergen> to achieve this year. In particular, we have some more or less
Juergen> concrete things people signed up for or which we wanted to work on
Juergen> and we need to see where we stand.

Juergen> 1 NMRG Osnabrueck meeting minutes: Aiko signed up for this. Aiko, what
Juergen>   is the status? When can we expect them to get online?

Juergen> 2 Web services followup work: Do we plan for a meeting? If yes, we
Juergen>   could hold a meeting next to IM 2003 since I think that many of us
Juergen>   will be there anyway. Comments?

Though my traveling plans are unclear, *if* I'll get to IM, I'll
attend the meeting.

Although Aiko's and Olivier's work is at its beginning, I think it
would make sense to talk about slightly improved ideas and visions,
anyway.

Oliver Bohle, student at TU Braunschweig, just started work on his
master thesis where his task is to (1) analyze one or two typical
"management problems", (2) analyze the "traditional SNMP solution",
and (3) propose and evaluate a WebServices based solution. Maybe, in
march there is something more I can tell about it.

Juergen> 3 SMI XML work (see the smixml mailing list) and SMI XML schema work
Juergen>   (basically Frank's and Thorsten's work on the xsd output driver of
Juergen>   smidump). Should the NMRG want to get involved into this? How
Juergen>   relevant is it related to 2?

I could tell about our SMI-to-XML-Schema mapping (presented at IM) and
also on our follow-up work for an SNMP/XML gateway which is currently
being developed by another student at TU Braunschweig, Jens Mueller.
I'd appreciate a discussion on this stuff.

Juergen> 4 The debacle of SMIng and what does the NMRG do? Any interests and
Juergen>   resources to finish the NMRG proposal in order to get it published
Juergen>   rather than completely lost?

Turning the current I-D documents into something that could probably
be published as an Informational RFC might make sense. Working on an
article looks less reasonable to me. Just my thoughts. I could spend
some time on it.

Juergen> 5 Old stuff: What do we do with other unfinished documents? Do we let
Juergen>   them just go away or do we try to get at least something out of it?
Juergen>   For example, I could imagine to publish a paper on the OID
Juergen>   compression somewhere so that the idea is not getting lost. Anyone
Juergen>   interested to contribute?

Sorry, no active interest.

Juergen> 6 In the Pisa meeting, we decided that it would be worth to make
Juergen>   measurements in real networks to better understand usage patterns of
Juergen>   SNMP in life networks. There was some followup on this, but nothing
Juergen>   where we got real data. Are people still interested in this?

Interested: definetely! But still skeptical, whether it's doable,
since most network are switched and run in full-duplex, so that it's
not trivial to attach a sniffer next to, e.g., a central NMS. Anyway,
I'd appreciate the effort very much. I think, a good document reasoning
the effort and explaining how it works and how it does not affect the
target site's security, as well as a well structured source code base,
would be important.

Juergen> 7 Anything else we should look at? Perhaps doing more work on nifty
Juergen>   algorithms to avoid as much explicit management as possible?

I'd like to discuss the issues mentioned by Olivier.

Juergen> Please comment on these issues. In particular, if we want to meet next
Juergen> to IM 2003, we should work out the logistics and the agenda we want to
Juergen> cover soon so that people can make their travel plans accordingly.

 -frank

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:21:46 +0100
From: Olivier Festor <[email-masked]>
Organization: The MADYNES Research Team
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>, Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [nmrg] nmrg plans for 2003
Sender: [email-masked]

Hello all ,

2) Great for an IM co-located meeting. All I need is a fast decision on 
the date (before ? , after ?) because plane tickets are still affordable 
and I want to buy them by the end of next week. Concerning XML, we are 
in the same situation as Aiko, i.e. doing some work in the area of Web 
Services without revolutionary stuff to present so far, thus not worth 
discussing in the current situation.

4) SMIng : Emmanuel Nataf, who actually did the SMIng JMX tool will be 
at IM. He is probably interested in contributing and can meet some of 
you there. He will probably stay at Colorado Springs for the NMRG 
meeting if we all agree that he is authroized to participate to this 
specific meeting. What do you think about that ?
   
6) measurments: DEFINTIVELY INTERESTING. I dream of a model that tells 
me what the management cost is.  

7) nifty algorithms to avoid explicit management : Yes Lets start a 
working group on SMI: the Structure for Management Inexistence  and 
another on SNMP : The Structure for Non Management Proliferation :-)
   
 On this subject, we are working in Nancy on self-configuration of 
management agents. This problem becomes more and more important in the 
context of nomadic computing, multi-homed entities, ad hoc networks. I 
saw a first effort in the context of alarm issuance (i.e. where to send 
alarms) but the scope that needs to be addressed is bigger : security 
settings & access control : what can be seen by whoom in which context, 
what alarm to which manager (in a multi-homed environment, ...) . In the 
scope of new groups on self-configurating routers, zeroconf whatever  
within IETF, it is probably worth that the NMRG looks at these issues. I 
am willing to participate actively in this area.

Best Regards,

Olivier Festor   

Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:

>I thought it would be a good idea to make plans what the NMRG wants
>to achieve this year. In particular, we have some more or less
>concrete things people signed up for or which we wanted to work on
>and we need to see where we stand.
>
>1 NMRG Osnabrueck meeting minutes: Aiko signed up for this. Aiko, what
>  is the status? When can we expect them to get online?
>
>2 Web services followup work: Do we plan for a meeting? If yes, we
>  could hold a meeting next to IM 2003 since I think that many of us
>  will be there anyway. Comments?
>
>3 SMI XML work (see the smixml mailing list) and SMI XML schema work
>  (basically Frank's and Thorsten's work on the xsd output driver of
>  smidump). Should the NMRG want to get involved into this? How
>  relevant is it related to 2?
>
>4 The debacle of SMIng and what does the NMRG do? Any interests and
>  resources to finish the NMRG proposal in order to get it published
>  rather than completely lost?
>
>5 Old stuff: What do we do with other unfinished documents? Do we let
>  them just go away or do we try to get at least something out of it?
>  For example, I could imagine to publish a paper on the OID
>  compression somewhere so that the idea is not getting lost. Anyone
>  interested to contribute?
>
>6 In the Pisa meeting, we decided that it would be worth to make
>  measurements in real networks to better understand usage patterns of
>  SNMP in life networks. There was some followup on this, but nothing
>  where we got real data. Are people still interested in this?
>
>7 Anything else we should look at? Perhaps doing more work on nifty
>  algorithms to avoid as much explicit management as possible?
>
>Please comment on these issues. In particular, if we want to meet next
>to IM 2003, we should work out the logistics and the agenda we want to
>cover soon so that people can make their travel plans accordingly.
>
>/js
>
>  
>

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:45:02 +0100
From: Aiko Pras <[email-masked]>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
CC: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [nmrg] nmrg plans for 2003
Sender: [email-masked]

Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> 1 NMRG Osnabrueck meeting minutes: Aiko signed up for this. Aiko, what
>   is the status? When can we expect them to get online?
Should be ready soon (this month)

> 2 Web services followup work: Do we plan for a meeting? If yes, we
>   could hold a meeting next to IM 2003 since I think that many of us
>   will be there anyway. Comments?
A meeting next to IM would be a good oppertunity. At our institute we do 
follow-up work, but that is still in an early stage and I don't have many 
things to tell.

> 
> 3 SMI XML work (see the smixml mailing list) and SMI XML schema work
>   (basically Frank's and Thorsten's work on the xsd output driver of
>   smidump). Should the NMRG want to get involved into this? How
>   relevant is it related to 2?
This has always been one of the NMRG activities. It still fits well.

> 4 The debacle of SMIng and what does the NMRG do? Any interests and
>   resources to finish the NMRG proposal in order to get it published
>   rather than completely lost?
It should somehow get published. I can not be of much help, I'm affraid ...

> 5 Old stuff: What do we do with other unfinished documents? Do we let
>   them just go away or do we try to get at least something out of it?
>   For example, I could imagine to publish a paper on the OID
>   compression somewhere so that the idea is not getting lost. Anyone
>   interested to contribute?
Some of that stuff would be OK for a paper. I would be interested to 
contribute somehow.

> 6 In the Pisa meeting, we decided that it would be worth to make
>   measurements in real networks to better understand usage patterns of
>   SNMP in life networks. There was some followup on this, but nothing
>   where we got real data. Are people still interested in this?
We do measurements in real networks (like the campusnet and the dutch 
research network). The problem is that not much usefull SNMP stuff is 
happening there. In fact the measurements should have been performed on "the 
same wire" as to which the management stations are connected. This is hardly 
do-able

> 7 Anything else we should look at? Perhaps doing more work on nifty
>   algorithms to avoid as much explicit management as possible?
Depends. If people are working on this and want to report, then let's do it.

Something else: in Europe several people are working on a so-called network
of excellence in this area. I believe we should try to integrate that work, 
as far as feasable, in our NMRG work.

Aiko

From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <[email-masked]>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>, Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [nmrg] nmrg plans for 2003
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:25:58 +0100
Sender: [email-masked]

W.r.t. meeting next to IM2003, I can be there if we do it before
the IM2003 (that is in between the IETF and IM meetings). I prefer
not to stay for yet another weekend away from home if you were
to do it after IM2003.

Thanks,
Bert 

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:17:52 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: Network Management Research Group <[email-masked]>
Subject: [nmrg] nmrg plans for 2003
Sender: [email-masked]

I thought it would be a good idea to make plans what the NMRG wants
to achieve this year. In particular, we have some more or less
concrete things people signed up for or which we wanted to work on
and we need to see where we stand.

1 NMRG Osnabrueck meeting minutes: Aiko signed up for this. Aiko, what
  is the status? When can we expect them to get online?

2 Web services followup work: Do we plan for a meeting? If yes, we
  could hold a meeting next to IM 2003 since I think that many of us
  will be there anyway. Comments?

3 SMI XML work (see the smixml mailing list) and SMI XML schema work
  (basically Frank's and Thorsten's work on the xsd output driver of
  smidump). Should the NMRG want to get involved into this? How
  relevant is it related to 2?

4 The debacle of SMIng and what does the NMRG do? Any interests and
  resources to finish the NMRG proposal in order to get it published
  rather than completely lost?

5 Old stuff: What do we do with other unfinished documents? Do we let
  them just go away or do we try to get at least something out of it?
  For example, I could imagine to publish a paper on the OID
  compression somewhere so that the idea is not getting lost. Anyone
  interested to contribute?

6 In the Pisa meeting, we decided that it would be worth to make
  measurements in real networks to better understand usage patterns of
  SNMP in life networks. There was some followup on this, but nothing
  where we got real data. Are people still interested in this?

7 Anything else we should look at? Perhaps doing more work on nifty
  algorithms to avoid as much explicit management as possible?

Please comment on these issues. In particular, if we want to meet next
to IM 2003, we should work out the logistics and the agenda we want to
cover soon so that people can make their travel plans accordingly.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder    <http://www.informatik.uni-osnabrueck.de/schoenw/>