Subject: RE: ENUM Privacy (was RE: [Enum] User ENUM vs Operator ENUM)

From: "Fullbrook Kim (UK)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:51:33 -0400

It's not clear to me exactly what you're suggesting here.

- If the DNS you're referring to is private then no concerns.
- If the DNS is publicly accessible then are you saying that in the DNS the E.164 number only has a domain name corresponding to it without a username   e.g. 12345678909 -> sip:bigtelco.com   ?  This would be an incomplete URI and would need some other mechanism to provide call routing to a specific user, perhaps a full ENUM DNS which is only accessible by Operators.  This "two tier" system would get rid of most of the privacy concerns but with the downside of some duplication of material.  Could be a solution worthy of further study.

- If the DNS is publicly accessible with the URI in usual format e.g. 12345678909 -> sip:jdoe at bigtelco.com  then we are back to the same situation already described: anyone can "war dial" the DNS and build up a list of SIP URIs of subscribers which is effectively a publicly accessible phone book without "opt out".

Kim.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Hammer [mailto:mhammer at cisco.com] 
Sent: 22 June 2004 20:38
To: Jeff Williams
Cc: enum at ietf.org; Stastny Richard
Subject: Re: AW: ENUM Privacy (was RE: [Enum] User ENUM vs Operator ENUM)

<Original note edited>

I would argue that for any E.164 number in the form of a domain name that 
is found within the DNS, if the resulting records point simply to 
information of a service or a service provider address that does not 
provide more information specific to an individual subscriber, then no 
privacy violation has occurred.  Any messages sent to that address, be they 
http, email, im, sip, h323, or whatever can then be handled on their own 
terms.  Routing happens.

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From: James Seng <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:40:05 -0400

And how is it different from someone wardial a set of numbers and 
obtained a list of valid phone number today?

ps: list of numbers != phone book. A yellowpage associate a number with 
a person.

-James Seng
Fullbrook Kim (UK) wrote:
- If the DNS is publicly accessible with the URI in usual format e.g. 
12345678909 -> sip:jdoe at bigtelco.com  then we are back to the same 
situation already described: anyone can "war dial" the DNS and build up 
a list of SIP URIs of subscribers which is effectively a publicly 
accessible phone book without "opt out".

Kim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Hammer [mailto:mhammer at cisco.com]
Sent: 22 June 2004 20:38
To: Jeff Williams
Cc: enum at ietf.org; Stastny Richard
Subject: Re: AW: ENUM Privacy (was RE: [Enum] User ENUM vs Operator ENUM)
<Original note edited>
I would argue that for any E.164 number in the form of a domain name that
is found within the DNS, if the resulting records point simply to
information of a service or a service provider address that does not
provide more information specific to an individual subscriber, then no
privacy violation has occurred.  Any messages sent to that address, be they
http, email, im, sip, h323, or whatever can then be handled on their own
terms.  Routing happens.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
========================================================
This electronic message contains information from the mmO2 plc Group
which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to
be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not
the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying
distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. 
If you
have received this electronic message in error, please notify us
by telephone or email (to the numbers or address above) immediately.
========================================================

------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
enum mailing list
enum at ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum
_______________________________________________
enum mailing list
enum at ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum

---

From: Jeff Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:16:47 -0400

Kim and all,

  Again good point, and exactly right in your conclusion.  The two tier
approach is IMHO being used to be unclear purposefully as a method
to soothe concerns of privacy while at the same time effecting a policy
that would be so confusing to the unsuspecting public at getting
access to private information as well as perhaps selling said
information
to potential marketing firms in order to bolster the providers bottom
line.

Fullbrook Kim (UK) wrote:

> - If the DNS is publicly accessible then are you saying that in the
> DNS the
> E.164 number only has a domain name corresponding to it without a
> username
> e.g. 12345678909 -> sip:bigtelco.com   ?  This would be an incomplete
> URI
> and would need some other mechanism to provide call routing to a
> specific
> user, perhaps a full ENUM DNS which is only accessible by Operators.
> This
> "two tier" system would get rid of most of the privacy concerns but
> with the
> downside of some duplication of material.  Could be a solution worthy
> of
> further study.
> situation
> already described: anyone can "war dial" the DNS and build up a list
> of SIP
> URIs of subscribers which is effectively a publicly accessible phone
> book
> without "opt out".
>
> Kim.
>
> -
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>    Part 1.2       Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
>               Encoding: 7bit

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
    Pierre Abelard

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liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
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