Subject: Re: [codec] IPR Disclosure: France Telecom's Statement about IPR related to RFC 6716

From: "Hoene" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 08:38:09 +0100

Oops, 

it covers the SILK part of Opus and it valid for another three year :-(

I think it is time to start working on Opus V2.0.

CH

--
Universität Tübingen, Sand 13, 72076 Tübingen, Germany
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] Im Auftrag von
IETF Secretariat
Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Januar 2013 19:04
An: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Betreff: [codec] IPR Disclosure: France Telecom's Statement about IPR
related to RFC 6716

Dear Jean-Marc Valin, Koen Vos, Tim Terriberry:
	
 An IPR disclosure that pertains to your RFC entitled "Definition of the
Opus Audio Codec" (RFC6716) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on
2013-01-18 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property
Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1949/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"France Telecom's Statement about IPR related to RFC 6716."");

The IETF Secretariat

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From: Monty Montgomery <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 02:50:52 -0500

> I think it is time to start working on Opus V2.0.

It's hardly time to panic :-P  We'll review it like the others that
have come in.

Monty
Xiph.Org

---

From: Ron <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 06:07:59 +1030

> It's hardly time to panic :-P  We'll review it like the others that

Did we ever hear back from Huawei about their uncertainty over their
rushed last-minute declaration of the patent they bought?  I thought
they'd promised to follow up on that ...

It is mildly amusing to see the people who objected to this group forming,
who claimed there was no expertise here to produce a competitive codec,
and who persist in objecting to its RF status, seem to have such amazing
trouble not only understanding this codec, but also their _own_ patents
and what they actually apply to ...

I'd certainly be embarrassed to be consistently that wrong about everything.

 'Oops' indeed.
  Ron

---

From: Stephan Wenger <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:15:53 +0000

Hi Ron,
Please see inline.
Stephan

>they'd promised to follow up on that ...

Yes, we did hear back.  https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1741/

For context, we asked for additional info regarding the granted patent, as
their initial declaration was against a published application which, at
the time of the declaration, was already an issued patent.

Let me also reiterate that, IMO, the declaration was both voluntary
(which, by definition, would mean it was timely), as well as timely even
if it were not made voluntarily.  It was voluntary because Huawei
established that none of their IETF participants knew about that patent
(as it was a recent acquisition, and the inventor is not an IETF
participant).  It was IMO timely, because they made their declaration
within a few months after they acquired the patent.

---

From: Ron <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 11:12:17 +1030

Hi Stephan,

> within a few months after they acquired the patent.

Yes, I remember there being a bit of a song and dance act with some
confusion over whether they'd even declared the right document, and
you prompting them for the correct one, which they then did add in the
link you post.  And I did appreciate their openness with sharing that
they suspected they might have purchased something which was relevant
here, given the lateness of the hour when that occurred. However that
isn't the interesting part that I was querying here ...

In their initial statement and explanation, they also disclosed:

 "So far Huawei thinks that the IPR **MAY** cover the I-D,
  a disclosure was therefore submitted."

(their emphasis, not mine)  And went on to say in their reply to you:

 Referring back to your previous question, that's also the reason why
 we even do not have time to evaluate the issued patent and counterpart
 applications.

 However, in order to facilitate your work I have pushed my colleagues
 to accelarate the pace, hope an investigation result can be available
 within two weeks.

But unless I missed an email somewhere along the line, that was the
last we ever heard of that.

Since the general consensus so far appears to be that their IPR does
*not* cover the RFC at all, I'm curious if that is also the conclusion
that they came to after they found time to properly investigate, and
if so, were they planning to report that back to us as promised?

They certainly haven't pressed their claim for royalties with anyone
currently shipping this, and I've not heard anybody say they will be
expecting them to, but still, it would be nice of them to allay the
fears of Christian Hoene and reassure him that he can still use Opus
on a RF basis in any of his projects.

There's no good reason to leave people fearing needlessly. :)

Timely disclosures are indeed very important to working groups, but
timely disclosures of the irrelevance of a previous disclosure seems
to be something that perhaps some IETF participants could improve on
to the benefit of all concerned.